Would it be okay to trash AoO?

[fimp]

I simply cant figure out what AoO is good for. All it does, is slowing down the game with the DM (me) looking into the rulebook, every time AoO occurs.


So do you think its okay, for me and my group to simply cancel every rule about AoO?

 

[mikebr99]

You're trolling aren't you... well, I'm bored so I'll take the bait.



Sure you can... It's you game afterall. BUT... you'll be nerfing a whole lot of feats and combat manuvers.

Some things need the tradeoff of provoking AoO's or they are just too unbalancing. I.e. casting spells in melee, using a missile weapon in melee, movement around combat, digging for stuff in a backpack in melee...

Sure drop it out of the rules... you could even go back to 2e!!

 

[fimp]

You're trolling aren't you... well, I'm bored so I'll take the bait.



Sure you can... It's you game afterall. BUT... you'll be nerfing a whole lot of feats and combat manuvers.

Some things need the tradeoff of provoking AoO's or they are just too unbalancing. I.e. casting spells in melee, using a missile weapon in melee, movement around combat, digging for stuff in a backpack in melee...

Sure drop it out of the rules... you could even go back to 2e!!

Sorry, but i dont know the word "trolling".

Hmm, well. From what you say, then i could just cut off the movement based AoO, and still keep AoO from actions! Or what?

 

[cthuluftaghn]

I think the AoO is FAR too valuable to even consider dropping. It is a large part of what makes D&D combat a strategy game, as opposed to a simple dice rolling session.

The AoO forces players, and DM, to consider the implications of their actions. It also adds a touch of reality. For example:

"Hmmmm... I'd like to charge the evil wizard in the back, but his four ogre lackeys are lined up to defend him."

Now... consider that statement WITH AoO's. If you try to go barreling past the ogre lackeys, they're going to squash you... as they should! It's their job, and it's what they're there for. They are the whole reason that physically weak magic-users are able to "keep a good distance and use big guns."

Now... how about trying again WITHOUT AoO's? Your PC is now able to ignore the biggest challenge in the encounter and rush on through to hit the wizard with zero consequence! What's the point of strategy, in this case?

My suggestion to you is this.... as DM, read carefully to learn as much about the AoO as possible. The movement rules for provoking an AoO truly are not that complicated. Use the table on the Dungeon Master Screen for quick reference to determine if an action will provoke an AoO. If you don't have the screen, or can't afford it, make a little chart of your own.

In my campaigns, combat is ALL ABOUT the AoO. I'd never drop them... not a chance. If your players don't want to take the time to learn the AoO rules, that doesn't mean that you can't still use them as the DM!! Your players will learn VERY quickly to pay attention the first time they get sliced and diced trying to walk across a room.

I'll check back every now and then to see if you have any more questions.

Good luck!

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

If AoOs are interfering with your enjoyment of the game, then by all means trash them--or any other rule that is a hinderance rather than a help.

AoO works great for some people, and that's fine, but D&D got along for many years without them as well.

Just use a little common sense and DM's fiat.

--If your players want their characters to go charging by the ogre guards without giving them a thought, let them, but first inform them that the guards will get a free swipe at them with a hefty bonus as they go by--and, of course, you could always have the ogres try to trip them, move in front of them (opposed DEX rolls) , etc...

--Closing against a spear wielder? Tell them he automatically gets initiative.

--Spellcasting in combat? Caster loses initiative, DEX bonus, and suffers a penalty to AC--you might even give the caster the option of avoiding all or some of these penalties, at the cost of +5% chance of spellfailure per point of penalty ignored.

Anyway, just let your imagination and common sense be your guide, and you can't go far wrong.

Afterall, the whole point is to have fun.

 

[cthuluftaghn]

Anyway, just let your imagination and common sense be your guide, and you can't go far wrong.

Afterall, the whole point is to have fun.

While I agree 100% with the above statement... and I am a HUGE advocate of tayloring house rules to further the enjoyment of the game... I have to add a word of caution.

Be consistent! In the above examples by Thorvald, he just created 3 new rules that... if they are used once... they need to be used every time in the same instance (I use the word "need" loosely, as the DM always has the prerogative to change the rules to suit the situation).

What the AoO does, in this case, is provide a single ruling for multiple situations. As Thorvald mentioned, you could come up with your own ruling as each new scenario evolves... but you could be setting yourself up for trouble by doing so.

For example:

--Closing against a spear wielder? Tell them he automatically gets initiative.

Fine! That's fair and practical. Just remember that the next time your PC is the spear wielder! Whatever rule you use against your players... they'll cry "foul!" if they're not able to use the same rule to their advantage.

I guess I'm biased because I've got a good grasp on the AoO concept... but I think part of its purpose is to simplify things... not to make them more difficult. NO rule in ANY sourcebook should kill the smooth flow of game-play. But, if you start to stray too far from the rules, you just might not be playing D&D anymore. I still think your best bet is to get a solid understanding of a rule before you decide to change it. Two things might happen:

1. You'll find out it's a good rule and you won't want to change it at all.
2. You'll understand it well enough to come up with a fair substitute... which is better than just eliminating an important rule concept.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

--If your players want their characters to go charging by the ogre guards without giving them a thought, let them, but first inform them that the guards will get a free swipe at them with a hefty bonus as they go by--and, of course, you could always have the ogres try to trip them, move in front of them (opposed DEX rolls) , etc...

--Closing against a spear wielder? Tell them he automatically gets initiative.

--Spellcasting in combat? Caster loses initiative, DEX bonus, and suffers a penalty to AC--you might even give the caster the option of avoiding all or some of these penalties, at the cost of +5% chance of spellfailure per point of penalty ignored.)

Reinventing the wheel with multiple arbitrary rules is not a sound replacement for AoOs. Bad, bad, bad idea.

Yes, you can get rid of AoOs. It makes the combat almost entirely about slappling down damage. If you prefer that game be my guest. Seriously. If you de-emphasize combat in your campaign, that may be a fine solution.

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

Yes, but quite a few other mechanics assume they are present.

I'd advise not dumping them completely, but look at how they are handled in Wheel of Time (which has them, but less prodominant). Then, once you become comfortable with how those work, start to work in more, one or a few at a time.

If this proves to still be a burden, then try to use WoT's combat rules instead of 3E's. But also note how some Feats are different (and even absent) from WoT so you have a clearer idea of what kind of changes you're looking at.

 

[Ace]

You're trolling aren't you... well, I'm bored so I'll take the bait.



Sure you can... It's you game afterall. BUT... you'll be nerfing a whole lot of feats and combat manuvers.

Some things need the tradeoff of provoking AoO's or they are just too unbalancing. I.e. casting spells in melee, using a missile weapon in melee, movement around combat, digging for stuff in a backpack in melee...

Sure drop it out of the rules... you could even go back to 2e!!

I agree this might be a troll but Iwill bite too.

I often game without minis so I ahve had to come up with a solution to this issue of AOO's.

What I did is simplify them. If you charge a ranged or reach weapon, try to slip by someone in combat or stop fighting in melee to do something else like cast a spell or dig for a potion well your foe gets a free attack.

Its pretty simple and works reasobally well.

 

[fimp]

Okay, thank you for ALL answers! I think i've come to the conclusion to keep AoO in the game. At least for a while, telling the players they will have to help me with the AoO concept. So that im not the only one to figure out the rules.


But i still dont know what "trolling" means!