would this be evil?

[Kilmore]

I'm not trying to be insulting, but rather than the party's situation being the definition of evil or chaotic, I would say that is the very definition of... let's be charitable... not having the party's full minds engaged on the task. Now, let's everyone that has never made a... okay I'll say it... dumb decision raise their hands so the rest of us poor mortals can see them and stone them down before we are humiliated any further.

We had one guy try to hack through a floor with a longsword so he could spy on a conversation downstairs.

Yeah, overall the party went in a pretty evil direction, but it's not irredeemable. Theft, kidnapping, unjustifiable manslaughter. Not good on the resume. If you get out of this, your characters should probably either go all the way bad or go though a painful process of redemption, either public or private. The good news is that ten years from now if your group's still together this incident will probably be quite amusing and brought up often.

 

[Kilmore]

Oh yeah, and I wouldn't have made a crit on a blow to knock her out lethal. In my opinion, rolling a "20" ensures success. That was more like a fumble.

Did the gendarmes come running when she screamed?

 

[Agback]

G'day

Attempting to pervert the course of justice. Kidnapping, extortion, murder. No question: the party are evil. If were I on the bench or jury I would be glad to see them all swing. Suppose that someone did this in your neighbourhood: how would you feel about it?

It's not so much that this series of events will change their alignment: it reveals that their alignment always was evil. They have not even the feeble extenuation that their victims were evil.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Teflon Billy]

Oh yeah, and I wouldn't have made a crit on a blow to knock her out lethal. In my opinion, rolling a "20" ensures success. That was more like a fumble.

Did the gendarmes come running when she screamed?

I was going to say the exact same thing. If you are striking to subdue, in my opinion a "Critical Success" should result in (ta-da!) Subdual!

Not instant death.

 

[tburdett]

You are in a group with a rogue that like stealing. She wanders off one night before an adv (to make a lil money) and is caught stealing from a high ranking polit figure. You need to get her out of jail by tomorrow in order to go on your way (and will prolly never come back to this town).

So you kidnap the politician's daughter and hold her ransome. While holding her hostage, she wriggles free from the mouthpiece and starts to scream. You hit her with the back of your sword to subdue her, but crits. the DM rules that you hit her so hard that she is bludgeopned to death.

Puting aside that you now have to deal with the law, but was that act evil? was the kidnapping evil? hitting her to shut her up? and what happens now? The adventure hasn't even started yet and we are in a heap of trouble.

If it were up to me- I would get the hell out of Dodge- and roll up new characters. But one of the players put a lot of work into his- and doesn't want to throw it away....

little help...

You don't need a little help, you need a LOT of help if you can't figure out that this is Evil, with a capital E.

Good people don't go around kidnapping and murdering people FOR ANY REASON. How can you not know that this is evil?

Is it ever NOT evil to kidnap and murder someone? Well?

 

[Desdichado]

Well, if you have to ask...

yeah, I'd call that evil. Doesn't mean the game has to be over, though. Let the thief rot (or escape as she can), run away, and keep the skeletons in your closet to haunt your PCs for the rest of their careers, no matter how much good they try to do. Sounds like a great twist to what could otherwise be a run-of-the-mill, standard campaign (not that your DM's going to provide a run of the mill campaign, but now he can't even if he wants to!)

 

[Friadoc]

Re: Re: would this be evil?

Good people don't go around kidnapping and murdering people FOR ANY REASON. How can you not know that this is evil?

Is it ever NOT evil to kidnap and murder someone? Well?

Hehheh!

Sorry, but adventuring is home invasion and murder of 'evil' races.

Technically, adventurers do a whole buttload of murder and kidnapping, as well as armed robbery and so forth.

That weird lil' bit said, it's obvious that the players did an evil act - it's along the ideas of a stupid idea gone horribly awry, etc.

 

[Mort]

clearly evil

This is seems the very definition of evil to me. The parties FIRST inclination and action was to kidnap an innocent and then when faced with a little resistance to kill her (granted the DM made a terrible call saying that a critical success on a subdual strike results in a killing blow).
Had the party tried other alternatives and after repeated failure (not that the rogue seemed worth it) resorted to this plan, I could see mitigating circumstances. Here, however, the party immediately went with a plan that could under no stretch of the imagination be considered “good.” (forget the killing part, kidnapping and holding for ransom isn’t exactly “good” behavior).
I would say any person in this group who picked a lawful or good alignment should be taken aside and asked if they understand the meaning of those terms. After a decent discussion, I would continue with the campaign, as it seems pretty cool to have a party try to recover from this

 

[ced1106]

but the rest of teh group, a cleric, wiz, sorc, ranger and fighter were the ones that kidnapped the girl. We just thought it was the easiest way to get on with the game. Guess not.

Ah, yes. The player version of "Nah, the DM would **never** send us up against an NPC we can't fight."

Anyway, **run with it**. Did you see the Coen Brothers' "The Man Who Wasnt' There"? The main character isn't particularly evil, but "one thing leads to another" and the situation spirals out of control. Enjoy your memorable, roleplaying-rich, short, tragic, life.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[tburdett]

Re: Re: Re: would this be evil?

Hehheh!

Sorry, but adventuring is home invasion and murder of 'evil' races.

Technically, adventurers do a whole buttload of murder and kidnapping, as well as armed robbery and so forth.

That weird lil' bit said, it's obvious that the players did an evil act - it's along the ideas of a stupid idea gone horribly awry, etc.

Maybe in your games, not in mine. My games aren't door > kill > loot > door > kill > loot > etc.