Would you allow this feat?

[Nail]

If my "real life experiences" can demonstrate what I believe to be a flaw in the rules, I will say so. It is, of course, my opinion, but I am entitled to express it.

Of course!

But: it is invariably the case that your experiences can/will be contradicted by someone else's. It's simply the nature of the beast. As a method of arguement (in gaming, on the internet), it is weak.

Moreover, your interpretation of your experiences is biased. That's not meant as an insult. It just means that your experiences can be explained in many, many different ways, and can be interpreted as rules in lots of equally valid ways.

The point being: the rules can't be argued effectively from a "real life experience" basis.

Put another way: had I been in the stands, watching you fight, I'll bet I could have seen you "cleave" off an "Attack of Opportunity".

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Hell yeah...I'm a cleavin' monstah!

And let me also apologize. Your post caught me in a really bad frame of mind (workaday woes), and I took my Posting AoO out on ya.

 

[Nail]

And let me also apologize. Your post caught me in a really bad frame of mind (workaday woes), and I took my Posting AoO out on ya.

Fortunately for the other posters standing next to me, I still have 1 hp, and I didn't drop.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well Patryn, you may have done the impossible... you've changed someone's mind by posting on the internet!

You roll enough dice, you gotta roll a 20 eventually ...

 

[Nifft]

I'm considering making "Cleave" grant an attack as an Immediate action -- thus, one per round, no matter when you get it.

"Great Cleave" would grant an attack as a Free action.

-- N

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I didn't participate in the other thread, so I guess that--in this very limited scope--that makes me one of the "silent majority."

I voted "No, but I do allow Cleave on an AoO." I'd explain how I see AoOs and why they can interact with Cleave, while simply taking an AoO on someone who didn't provoke it is wonky, but Patryn of Elvenshae already did a wonderfully eloquent job of it.

So, "what he said."

 

[Ibram]

I most definatly not allow that feat, and i do not allow cleave attempts to be made after an AoO.

From my PoV its a timing issue, you can make a cleave attempt as part of a full round attack action, and as you can only make a partial action during an AoO you cannot use Cleave.

If you allow cleaves as part of an AoO then there is no reason why you cannot allow them as part of a charge action.

 

[kenobi65]

Abso-friggin'-lutely not.

I voted "no/no" on the poll, though I confess I'm on the fence on Cleave / AoO. If Fred lets down his guard, and you kill him, I *might* be able to see how you can cleave through to Charley, who was minding his own business.

(And, yes, I'll agree that Cleave is kind of a wonky feat anyway. But, IME, it's led to some of the most enjoyable play experiences our groups have had, so I tend to think of it as something that enhances a cinematic style of combat.)

But, to be able to specifically target Charley with an attack, because Fred let down his guard? No, no, no, no, no!

 

[Thanee]

"Ooh! Ooh! You're contradicting yourself!"

3. An AoO represents nothing more than an additional opening in combat. There are, generally speaking, numerous such occurrences, happening and closing every round. Your ability to take advantage of them normally is represented by your BAB. However, sometimes someone does something that leaves more openings than normal (provokes an AoO). Your ability to take advantage of such an opening is, still, represented by your BAB. (NOTE: I believe being rendered helpless should provoke AoOs but, RAW, it doesn't.)

3. So, why did I say "No," above? Simple. You cannot take advantage of an opening that isn't really there. Therefore, you cannot make an AoO on someone who has not provoked one.

There you go!

Bye
Thanee

 

[JackGiantkiller]

Patryn of Elvenshae, thou dost rock.

Good explanation of the feat and the ideas it represents...I'll be using cleave and great cleave for more than superheroic blowthorugh from now on.