Would you allow this feat?

[Hypersmurf]

From my PoV its a timing issue, you can make a cleave attempt as part of a full round attack action, and as you can only make a partial action during an AoO you cannot use Cleave.

If you allow cleaves as part of an AoO then there is no reason why you cannot allow them as part of a charge action.

You can make a Cleave attempt following any melee attack that drops an opponent.

Attack action, Full Attack action, Charge action, AoO, whatever.

It's an exception to the rule that you need the Full Attack action to make more than one attack.

From the Combat section of the PHB:
Cleave: The extra attack granted by the Cleave feat or Great Cleave feat can be taken whenever they apply. This is an exception to the normal limit to the number of attacks you can take when not using a full attack action.

"Therefore, you cannot make an AoO on someone who has not provoked one."

There you go!

That's not a contradiction. Someone Cleaving from an AoO is not making an AoO on someone who has not provoked one. They're making an immediate extra melee attack on someone who has not provoked one.

Completely different.

-Hyp.

 

[Crothian]

I agree with Hyp

Also, this feat is not the same as cleaving after an AoO. This feat always works when an AoO happen, cleaving does not occur after an AoO all the time. With this feat I can be standing between an enemy and a friend. My friend provokes an AoO agaist him and so I hit the enemy. This feat is way more abusible and way worse then allowing cleave after an AoO ever can be.

 

[Philip]

That's not a contradiction. Someone Cleaving from an AoO is not making an AoO on someone who has not provoked one. They're making an immediate extra melee attack on someone who has not provoked one.

Completely different.

-Hyp.

Hyp, I agree. But I made the example feat rather extreme just to not get the issue confused. Since we're already on the second page and it would probably not affect the poll, I can post what I feel would be a somewhat more realistic feat description:

OPPORTUNISTIC FEINT

You are trained in using the expectations of your enemies against them in combat, thereby creating an unexpected opening in their defenses.

Prerequisite: Cha 13, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise

Benefit: When you receive an attack of opportunity, you can make an immediate extra melee attack on any opponent within the area you threaten instead of the attack of opportunity. This counts as your attack of opportunity for the round. You can use this ability only once per round. Use of this ability does not deny the target its dexterity bonus.

Normal: A character without this feat can only make attacks of opportunity against the target that provoked it.

A fighter may select Opportunistic Feint as one of his fighter bonus feats.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

4. But wait, I allow Cleave on an AoO. Isn't this feat the same thing, so aren't I contradicting myself? Not at all. Cleave is the ability to create an opening where there wasn't one - by hacking through Bob and into Joe, by tossing Bob into Joe, by spraying Joe with Bob's blood, by attacking from an unexpected direction (his blade should have been over there), etc. So, someone with Cleave can create that opening, even if the "kill" happens outside of his or her turn (which is a metagame concept, anyway - that character is constantly attacking and constantly defending, even if we need to segment it out to make the game playable).

This feat represents the ability to create an opening, too. That is the entire point of the feat.

I can see no logical necessity why someone has to die in order to achieve the cinematic effects you describe.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Philip:

How is this any different than the first feat you posted, other than a few extra qualifiers?

 

[Scion]

I voted no and yes respectively. I think that the psuedo prereq of 'must down an opponent' is so massive as to make the comparison between the two effectively irrelevant.

Cleave off of aoo? sure. Cleave off of charge? go for it. Cleave off of full attack onto someone? enjoy.

I still dont see it as any different than any other benefit granted by a combat feat. Such as improved trip or disarm or whatever.

Fun times

 

[Darkness]

Moved to House Rules.

 

[Geoff Watson]

No, definately not.

You could gain AoOs when your allies do things, but you normally don't bother taking them (I have seen PCs take AoOs on their allies, such as Tripping a victim of Cause Fear so he doesn't run too far).

Being able to use them to get extra attacks on enemies would be far too powerful.

Geoff.

 

[Thanee]

That's not a contradiction.

Psst... the contradiction is:

Spoiler

He has listed 3. twice and with different content, so those obviously contradict each other.

Completely different.

You say it!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Moved to House Rules.

Uhm... this is a thread about Cleave and AoO, not about a house rule...

Bye
Thanee