Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
If the art in the 3e core books had all been done like the pic of the Sorcerer I would have put the books down and bought something else.
Would you hold it against a book if...
- Thread starter KingOfChaos
- Start date
jester47
First Post
To answer the frikkin question.
I think it comes down to lines. The more serious subject matter the more lines you will see. Good examples of this are in the more serious animes like Princess Mononoke, Ghost in the Shell, and the serious scenes in Cowboy Bebop. Compare these to the lighthearted scenes in cowboy bebop, Ruroni Kenshin, and all of Ranma 1/2. You get more lines. Other places you see it are when Todd Mcfarlane was working on the Amazing Spiderman, notice that when Todd started on it, things got a lot darker? The other place more lines connotate a more serious subject are in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Hard Boiled, Original Judge Dread, A lot of the art in Heavy Metal and Ironically the Eastman and Laird TMNT. However the best example is in Warhammer art. The stuff is always serious and has a huge line count.
So my answer is yes, anime style art could work if done right(i.e. more lines than what was shown in that dragonlance site). I would say be very very careful. Or avoid it and not have to worry at all. Even then I think anime style art would hurt sales as many customers of Fantasy RPGs want somthing that looks more like sketches and oils rather than cartoons. Most people want representations of people, not charicatures, which is what anime and comics in general are based on. Cartoons are then based on comics.
However if Dragonlance is gonna be anime, it had better look like this:
I think it comes down to lines. The more serious subject matter the more lines you will see. Good examples of this are in the more serious animes like Princess Mononoke, Ghost in the Shell, and the serious scenes in Cowboy Bebop. Compare these to the lighthearted scenes in cowboy bebop, Ruroni Kenshin, and all of Ranma 1/2. You get more lines. Other places you see it are when Todd Mcfarlane was working on the Amazing Spiderman, notice that when Todd started on it, things got a lot darker? The other place more lines connotate a more serious subject are in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Hard Boiled, Original Judge Dread, A lot of the art in Heavy Metal and Ironically the Eastman and Laird TMNT. However the best example is in Warhammer art. The stuff is always serious and has a huge line count.
So my answer is yes, anime style art could work if done right(i.e. more lines than what was shown in that dragonlance site). I would say be very very careful. Or avoid it and not have to worry at all. Even then I think anime style art would hurt sales as many customers of Fantasy RPGs want somthing that looks more like sketches and oils rather than cartoons. Most people want representations of people, not charicatures, which is what anime and comics in general are based on. Cartoons are then based on comics.
However if Dragonlance is gonna be anime, it had better look like this:
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jgbrowning
Hero
well
personally, i dont think anime art is appropriate for a lot of books.
most people still run western european based games, and anime art is inseperable (for those of us **ie. all of us here**) from our knowledge that such art is distictly asian.
If i have a book talking about Knights in Full Plate Armor Jousting and i have an anime picture next to it, IMHO, it is adding an Anacronism? into the thought of the reader.
If your running a campaign that's not based on western europe, or one thats in a state of mixed historical sources, anime isn't really a problem.
personally, i dont like much anime. Proportion is thrown out the window in favor of style. there is very good anime art out there (ghost in the shell being very good, both art and subject), but even the best has moments of questionable proportioning.
joe b.
personally, i dont think anime art is appropriate for a lot of books.
most people still run western european based games, and anime art is inseperable (for those of us **ie. all of us here**) from our knowledge that such art is distictly asian.
If i have a book talking about Knights in Full Plate Armor Jousting and i have an anime picture next to it, IMHO, it is adding an Anacronism? into the thought of the reader.
If your running a campaign that's not based on western europe, or one thats in a state of mixed historical sources, anime isn't really a problem.
personally, i dont like much anime. Proportion is thrown out the window in favor of style. there is very good anime art out there (ghost in the shell being very good, both art and subject), but even the best has moments of questionable proportioning.
joe b.
Apok
First Post
Carnifex said:
That's because the really good stuff rarely makes it out of Japan. You can still find it, but you have to look around hard for it (go to anime conventions & the like). However, since non-anime diehards find going to such revents a waste of their time, the really great anime will only be seen by the few who enjoy the medium.
Which means that the rest of you get stuck with the schlock.
Apok
First Post
Re: well
I guess you could call me a style-oriented kinda guy. If I want realism and historical accuracy, I'll go to a library or a museam. For my RPG's, I demand style.
So no, I have no problem with manga artwork and I don't share other people's odd prejudice against it in RPG books.
Long live Exalted, manga artwork and all!!
jgbrowning said:
I guess you could call me a style-oriented kinda guy. If I want realism and historical accuracy, I'll go to a library or a museam. For my RPG's, I demand style.
So no, I have no problem with manga artwork and I don't share other people's odd prejudice against it in RPG books.
Long live Exalted, manga artwork and all!!
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Holy half-eaten capybaras in a python's belly!jester47 said:
Even I would like Dragonlance if the art looked like that. And I HATE Dragonlance.
I thought Exalted looked TOTALLY cool.
I think the REAL answer to the question is: "People don't like books with crappy art." So if you're talking CRAPPY anime art, then, well, no. Not such a good idea. If you're talking KICK-BUTT, Holy Toledo, "I Can't Believe It's Not Brom!" anime art, then cool. Go for it.
And I definitely find art an important part of an RPG book. I see crappy art and I think, "Feh, they couldn't even be bothered to find some good art? I don't think I can be bothered to read this." Which maybe leaves me out of some really great material but you know what? I don't think it does.
It did hook me into Exalted, and the Iron Kingdoms, and Call of Cthulhu. It kept me out of Dragonlance (can anybody draw kender so they don't look completely stupid?) and is the primary reason I avoided Robert Jordan for so long (is that not the dumbest map you've EVER seen?). I have found that filtering by art actually works pretty well for me. I don't buy something JUST because it's got good art, and I don't reject things just because they've got crappy art. But I'll pick up a book with great art and look it over, see if I like it. And a book with crappy art will have to be getting some pretty awesome reviews before I'll take a look at it.
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
I think the biggest problem here is that the people against Manga-styled art is that all they have really seen is the stuff brought over to America/non-Japanesse countries. Only things that get brought over here are things that "will sell", so the gritty and best stuff never gets here, sadly.
I, personally, like most all styles of art. I'm an artist myself, and can switch between styles when needed. Realism has its strengths, as does any style. Thing is when people think "anime" style art, they usually will think of the shows they've been exposed to. ANY style can be used for most anything in the end, its just a matter of WHO does it and HOW its done. Every style has different styles within it, and Manga-styled art can be VERY realistic at times, just as realistic art can be very UN-realistic at times. Don't judge a style based on only a small exposure to it. And there aren't all that many people that HAVE a lot of exposure to Manga art styles, it seems.
I, personally, like most all styles of art. I'm an artist myself, and can switch between styles when needed. Realism has its strengths, as does any style. Thing is when people think "anime" style art, they usually will think of the shows they've been exposed to. ANY style can be used for most anything in the end, its just a matter of WHO does it and HOW its done. Every style has different styles within it, and Manga-styled art can be VERY realistic at times, just as realistic art can be very UN-realistic at times. Don't judge a style based on only a small exposure to it. And there aren't all that many people that HAVE a lot of exposure to Manga art styles, it seems.
Sixchan
First Post
Do I think a book would have its sales hurt is it had manga-style artwork in it? Yes.
Would I hold it against the book if it had manga-style artwork in it? Hell no!
If the Art was going to influence me in buying a book, I'd probably be more likely to buy something with manga artwork. Obviously not 'pull-giant-mallets-out-of-nowhere' manga artwork (unless it wasn't the primary style), but more serious stuff, I'd probably pick it up more easily. I really hate WotC's current Artistic stuff, and that HAS influenced whther or not I buy their books...
In fact, I think even stuff like SD manga drawings have their place in a D&D book, kinda like the cool little cartoons in the 1e PHB. They would have too be used in moderation, though.
But I think its about time we (read: I) started seeing Fighters and Wizards with giant eyes!
Would I hold it against the book if it had manga-style artwork in it? Hell no!
If the Art was going to influence me in buying a book, I'd probably be more likely to buy something with manga artwork. Obviously not 'pull-giant-mallets-out-of-nowhere' manga artwork (unless it wasn't the primary style), but more serious stuff, I'd probably pick it up more easily. I really hate WotC's current Artistic stuff, and that HAS influenced whther or not I buy their books...
In fact, I think even stuff like SD manga drawings have their place in a D&D book, kinda like the cool little cartoons in the 1e PHB. They would have too be used in moderation, though.
But I think its about time we (read: I) started seeing Fighters and Wizards with giant eyes!
BigFreekinGoblinoid
First Post
I have to admit that I am prejudiced against most Anime/Manga style artwork. While not ALL manga is the sterotype big eyes - well ... most of what I am exposed to is. I recently stopped buying one of the X-Men comic book titles due to an art switch to this style. I stopped buying Gen13 a long time ago because of the Manga cover art.
I just don't like it Sam - I - Am!
I know it's super hypocritical of me to think that large eyes and sharp chins are lame, but impossibly small chainmail outfits and monstrously large breasts are hip. Perhaps I have been socially conditioned this way?
IMHO, many anime & manga fans are RABID, and I'm not surprised that they would think that most people like it.
All that being said, if M. Shirow would do all the illo's for the entire line of books, I might give it a peek!
I just don't like it Sam - I - Am!
I know it's super hypocritical of me to think that large eyes and sharp chins are lame, but impossibly small chainmail outfits and monstrously large breasts are hip. Perhaps I have been socially conditioned this way?
IMHO, many anime & manga fans are RABID, and I'm not surprised that they would think that most people like it.
All that being said, if M. Shirow would do all the illo's for the entire line of books, I might give it a peek!
I hate anime. All of it. Damn all anime to hell! Seriously though avatar and handle aside, art for me in an RPG book is a secondary or even tertiary consideration unless it is a Monster book, in which case it is an equal consideration to content. I don't mind a mix at all. I grew up reading Spiderman comics and loved T-Mac art. Hell I even have his autograph on a Spiderman #1 laying around somewhere. The more serious anime has a nice clean style and seeing a mix of it doesn't bother me so much. Wonder if anyone from S&SS would step in and tell us how much the anime art in Creature Collection hurt their sales.
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