D&D 5E Would you rather have a power 1/Short Rest, or 3/Long Rest?
- Thread starter Slit518
- Start date
Your party is in a position to rest for 1 hour after every fight? Wow. Your DM is a lot more laid-back than I am.
My own experience is that the party rarely gets a chance for more than 3 meaningful short rests in a day (where by "meaningful" I mean "in between two combats"). So 3/long rest is almost always better than 1/short rest.
The exception would be an ability that is primarily used outside of combat, such that the potential to do it 12+ times per day is useful.
Slit518
Adventurer
If you enjoyed this poll, try it's sequel at http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?535850-Would-you-rather-have-1-Short-Rest-or-2-Long-Rest
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
They're both artificial. The first one is really jarring, the second is moderately jarring--because catching your breath doesn't actually take an hour.
Tony Vargas
Legend
Under the standard 5e 'day' - 6-8 encoutners, 2-3 short rests, a 1/short rest ability could be used up to 4 times, but never more than once in a given encounter. There's an argument that a 4th use, sometimes, makes up for the 'Nova' potential and flexibility advantage of 3/day. I don't find it a convincing argument, but it could be made.
In games with shorter 'days' - that is 2 or fewer short rests on average - 1/short rest is strictly inferior to 3/long rest. It gives the same or fewer total number of uses, and has less flexibility.
Obviously, on the other extreme, 1/short rest is strictly superior to 1/day.
A more nuanced consideration is that a 1/n resource is particularly tricky to manage, as you want to use it at the optimal moment, but doing so precludes using it again for n time. So it's very easy to mismanage such a resource and decline to use it at the optimal time, and end up using it sub-optimally, later, or not using it at all. Conversely, it's frustrating to use such a resource, then find yourself in a situation where it would be optimal or even turns out to be absolutely vital. It doesn't matter if n is short rest or long rest or day or whatever. But, even 2/n becomes /much easier/, because you have the flexibility to jump in and use it in the first optimal-seeming opportunity, while still keeping one use in reserve. In addition, 2+/n means you can 'Nova' by blowing the resource completely on a single situation.
Bottom line, to 'balance' even theoretically, 1/short rest probably roughly equates to 2/day, under the 2-3 short rest/day assumption. The 1/rest ability can generally be used more times per day, and that helps make up for the easier management and nova power of the 2/day ability.
In games with shorter 'days' - that is 2 or fewer short rests on average - 1/short rest is strictly inferior to 3/long rest. It gives the same or fewer total number of uses, and has less flexibility.
Obviously, on the other extreme, 1/short rest is strictly superior to 1/day.
A more nuanced consideration is that a 1/n resource is particularly tricky to manage, as you want to use it at the optimal moment, but doing so precludes using it again for n time. So it's very easy to mismanage such a resource and decline to use it at the optimal time, and end up using it sub-optimally, later, or not using it at all. Conversely, it's frustrating to use such a resource, then find yourself in a situation where it would be optimal or even turns out to be absolutely vital. It doesn't matter if n is short rest or long rest or day or whatever. But, even 2/n becomes /much easier/, because you have the flexibility to jump in and use it in the first optimal-seeming opportunity, while still keeping one use in reserve. In addition, 2+/n means you can 'Nova' by blowing the resource completely on a single situation.
Bottom line, to 'balance' even theoretically, 1/short rest probably roughly equates to 2/day, under the 2-3 short rest/day assumption. The 1/rest ability can generally be used more times per day, and that helps make up for the easier management and nova power of the 2/day ability.
I was really talking more about the numbers of times *during* a fight the ability could be used, not that a person would literally actually get to use it once every single fight they had. 3/long rest allows for the possibility of three times in a single fight... 1/short rest only allows at maximum once in a fight. And thus each ability should be judged on which method works better or makes more sense for it.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
WAY more fascinating than the poll results are the responses:
"Novas are cool." "Novas are bad."
"I don't like choices A or B. I choose C."
"My character is more powerful with choice A, therefore I choose A."
And perhaps one of the most interesting:
"Novas are cool." "Novas are bad."
"I don't like choices A or B. I choose C."
"My character is more powerful with choice A, therefore I choose A."
And perhaps one of the most interesting:
These PCs are out-of-combat for three or fewer hours per day!? Are they in the middle of a world war or something? In the LotR movies, I think a good 24 hours or so was the minimum amount of time between fights. Let's not forget the trek across Rohan!
You must have been watching some different movies from the ones I did. After the battle with the cave troll in Balin's Tomb, I don't recall the Fellowship telling the Balrog, "Hey, chill for an hour, okay? We need to get some hit points back before the boss fight."
Tony Vargas
Legend
To me it seems arbitrary, short-rest abilities just seem to be standing up and saying "check me out, I'm NOT Vancian!" What sort of narrative is made sense of by waiting an hour instead of 8?
For that matter, 1 hr seems like a long time to catch your breath, bind your wounds, collect your arrows, get your bearings and be ready for the next challenge. Maybe it's just an expectation set by the 10-min turns and 'balance of the turn following combat is spent binding wounds/cleaning weapons/etc' bit from 1e, but I feel like, if you're going to have a short rest at all, it should follow the combat or other intense exertion, immediately - and actually be short.
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