Wound and Dying

[P1NBACK]

... but what if staying un-concious and to get the fire burning under your friends is also there as an option.

That's not really an option though. They still aren't _doing_ anything.

And, if you are negative hit points and rolling for wound points, you're allies are hopefully gonna see you are in bad shape and get some kind of fire under them to heal you or stabilize you (so you don't roll for wound points anymore).

That's the idea. You aren't "out of the fight" but you're still risking something.

 

[Garthanos]

That's not really an option though. They still aren't _doing_ anything.

Who is "They" sure the character isn't doing anything ...but
can we give the player enough options and enough of the right kind of choices for it to stay interesting ...Involving resources to spend or not... like the Fate points which I want to merge with Action points. The player can still be affecting the battle in real significant ways.

The idea is these effects are under the players control...

Look at some of the warlord powers like ones which grant an ally an extra attack..with a bonus or like Lamb to the Slaughter which effectively sets a trap with the Warlord as bait a downed guy ought to be able to tempt the enemy nicely ;-p

I dont have the entire concept fleshed out so you are hearing me brainstorming outloud.
Might even have a list of powers with unconscious as a requirement ;-).
one like a basic action everyone has and one that is a skill specific power and one that is class specific... not sure.

Maybe the warlock as a class power can out of body to a part of the battle and do something as a spirit... shrug...

It boils down to what a given players needs to be enjoying the action... does it have to stay the same or can this be different in some flavorful way.

 

[Garthanos]

And, if you are negative hit points and rolling for wound points, you're allies are hopefully gonna see you are in bad shape and get some kind of fire under them to heal you or stabilize you (so you don't roll for wound points anymore).

Sure but in 4e fire in the belly worrying about your fallen is very much well conceptually the source of there own inspiration based effect ... or the fuel that makes your allies attacks stronger.. you fall and you get the option of buffing an ally if they choses to rush to your side or getting a boost on your save which do you take. .. maybe the ally couldnt rush to your side without getting attacked and maybe if they rush to your side and you succeed on your check they also get to spend a healing surge.

Maybe the idea is too theoretical at the moment.

 

[P1NBACK]

Who is "They" sure the character isn't doing anything ...but
can we give the player enough options and enough of the right kind of choices for it to stay interesting ...Involving resources to spend or not... like the Fate points which I want to merge with Action points. The player can still be affecting the battle in real significant ways.

The idea is these effects are under the players control...

This is definitely an awesome idea I think you should flesh out. It's just not what I'm trying to accomplish here.

With this system, I'm trying to give the players control over whether they risk death (and injury) with their characters, and keep them in tactical game that is 4E combat.

I like your ideas though. It's a different approach with similar goals.

 

[P1NBACK]

I've updated the OP with some revisions and added the Injury section, which is a custom design based on others ideas. I'll also post here:

Injuries

Hit points represent stamina, vigor, luck and skill in combat. When you run out of those (i.e. drop to 0 or below), you enter a state where you risk injury or death in combat. Injuries act very much like diseases and use the rules found on page 49 of the DMG. However, the DCs for moving on the Injury Track differ based on character level, not a level of injury.

SUFFER INJURY

• End of Combat: At the end of any combat encounter (or an appropriate situation deemed by your DM), you must roll as many d6s as you have Wound Points. If you roll above 10, but less than 15, you suffer a wound.
• Gain an Injury of the DM's Choice: You immediately gain an injury. The DM selects the type of injury based on the types of attacks you suffered during the fight. Feel free to make suggestions, but the DM has the final call.

INJURY ENDURANCE DCs

• Extended Rest: Generally, you will make an Endurance check after each extended rest to see if your injury stays the same, becomes worse, or gets better. The DC is outlined below and much like treating diseases, an ally can make a Heal check in place of your Endurance check. See the disease rules or Heal skill.
• Improve: 15 + 1/2 character level.
• Maintain: 10 + 1/2 character level.
• Worsen: less than 10 + 1/2 character level.

LIST OF INJURIES

• Shattered - This is a good option when the character has suffered injuries that affect their ability to carry objects or fight, like a mangled arm or smashed hand.
  • Recovered - You have completely recovered from your injury.
  • Better - The initial effects' penalty to attacks and checks becomes -1.
  • Initial Effect - You gain a -2 penalty to all attacks and Strength or Dexterity based checks.
  • Worse - You are weakened.
  • Final State - One of your limbs stops functioning entirely [maybe it needs to be amputated...]. You cannot use your off-hand for carrying or wielding items.
• Crippled - This is a good option when the character has suffered injuries that inhibit their mobility, like a hurt leg or back.
  • Recovered - You have completely recovered from your injury.
  • Better - Your speed is reduced by 1 and the penalty to checks becomes -1.
  • Initial Effect - Your speed is halved and you take a -2 penalty to all Constitution based checks.
  • Worse - You are slowed.
  • Final State - You are immobilized [better get a wheelchair] unless you crawl.
• Disfigured - This is a good option when the character has suffered injuries that would also alter their physical appearance and/or damage sensory organs, like a swollen face or burnt skin.
  
  • Recovered - You have completely recovered from your injury.
  • Better - You regain one of the healing surges you lost. The penalty to checks becomes -1.
  • Initial Effect - You lose two healing surges that cannot be regained. In addition, you take a -2 penalty to all Charisma based checks.
  • Worse - The DM chooses one: Your vision begins to blur, or your hearing begins going out. If vision, all creatures beyond 10 squares have concealment from you. If hearing, you take a -10 penalty to Perception checks to hear.
  • Final State - You are blinded or deafened (based on your prior state).
• Broken - This is a good option when the character has suffered injuries that would damage their mental state, such as a concussion or trauma.
  • Recovered - You have completely recovered from your injury.
  • Better - The penalty to checks becomes -1.
  • Initial Effect - You take a -2 penalty to all Intelligence based checks and each time you become bloodied, you become dazed (save ends).
  • Worse - Each time you become bloodied, you become stunned (save ends).
  • Final State - You are catatonic and unable to take any actions.

 

[P1NBACK]

I've added rules for a Cure Injury ritual, cleaned up the text, and made some minor changes and posted this in its "Beta" format on my WotC blog:

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Thanks for all the awesome feedback. I'm going to playtest this in my next campaign and make further tweaks if necessary.

 

[LostSoul]

I think it will work out well for you - it takes that "What are you willing to risk death for?" element from Dogs in the Vineyard. Pretty cool.

 

[P1NBACK]

I think it will work out well for you - it takes that "What are you willing to risk death for?" element from Dogs in the Vineyard. Pretty cool.

Thanks. That's kind of what I was going for.

I'll revisit this topic when I've done some actual campaign play with the rules.