Wow, Freedom of Movement

[Hejdun]

So, Hedjun, you're saying that *prior* to 3.5 all fighters were automatically dead in grapples?!?

I'm saying that in 3.0, a solo fighter (or a fighter without extraordinarily expeditious friends) grappling anything larger than itself was pretty screwed anyways, but 3.5 merely exaggerates this problem.

Let's use a, oh, I don't know, a Dire Tiger as an example.

3.0:

Dire Tiger has a grapple check of +25 (+9 BAB, +8 size, +8 str) as well as improved grab.

Dire Tiger attacks the level 8 fighter with AC 23, HP 64. For now, we'll say he hits with one claw, dealing 2d4+8 damage. He has an extremely good chance of winning the grapple check, so we'll say he does so.

Fighter's turn. He, being grappled, whips out his MW shortsword and attacks. He can manage to do 2d6+6 damage a round if he hits with his two attacks (+12/+7). The tiger, however, can do 4d4+16 + 2d6+4 damage a round if he hits with his attacks (2x +18, +13). Conparing their hit points (Fighter = 64 compared to Tiger = 120), and the fighter is as good as dead.

Now, it really depends on the party's ability to kill the Dire Tiger before he eats Fighter8 alive. The fighter has some options, like Power Attacking with his shortsword to do more damage. He can also attempt to escape (not all that likely).

3.5:

Fighter can no longer draw weapons freely, instead, he has to win a grapple check (hah!) to even draw a weapon, which means he's reduced to, umm... punching the Tiger. Good plan. If he happens to have some kind of magic item he can use to get away, then he's allright. Otherwise, well, the fighter is again relying on his friends to bail him out, or for a magic user to cast Freedom from Movement on him.

In other words, grappling screws the PCs over even more (particularly fighters) in 3.5, but if they wish to survive, they can either rely on a magic item (probably provided by your friendly local magic user) or Freedom of Movement (cast by your friendly local magic user). In other words, whereas in 3e a fighter has a chance, if slim, to fight off the Tiger, in 3.5 he's a roast goose unless the Cleric casts Freedom of Movement on him.

 

[youspoonybard]

This is exactly why one of my players is so paranoid that he always takes Close-Quarters Fighting.

 

[Iku Rex]

The Travel domain has just become even more important...

(Nitpick: They didn't change the travel domain power description, so technically it only lets you "act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement".)

 

[Camarath]

Camarath - I would like to hear what your list of fixes are to date. More specifically, what exactly are you fixing? How does one determine when a spell is 'broken'?

Here are five examples of rules that require some sort of Fix.
1. Do TWF and Flurrry of Blows stack? (rules say yes, sage says no)
2. What happens with missized ranged weapons? (rules say nothing, sage says within two sizes)
3. how do you deal with large creatures and cover vs ranged attacks? (rules only deal with melee)
4. Is the monks unarmed attack a true natural attack or does it just count as such for effects? (rules unclear)
5. Do you keep the same HD when using Polymorph dispite the change in Con? (alter self say no but con does change)

So tell me what's broken here?

Ring of Freedom of Movement is broken now (40000 gp is a joke). It would be better IMO if they had changed the duration to 1 minute per level or less.