Wow! I can't believe this! Thanks to all the reviewers!

[Ed Cha]

Yeah, unfortunately. We have a weirdo society. It's fine going out and killing orcs, but put the word "sex" in there, and out come the nooses

Yeah, I don't know how we tolerate so much violence, but any mention of sex or Satanism or swearing and we go bonkers.

I mean I don't think it's appropriate to have too much detailed information on any of these subjects in a book for all ages, but we shouldn't go crazy about discussing them in some limited way.

I'll really have to think about these issues more as we go into editing.

 

[Ed Cha]

Oh, by the way, I almost forgot! Here's another reviewer who liked The Hamlet of Thumble... His name is Gary.

"The material is clearly written by a gamer for the enjoyment of
gamers. Hooray!"-- Gary Gygax

"I read the kobold mound encounter and wanted to have a go at it... so that sold me on the whole."-- Gary Gygax

"Innovative."-- Gary Gygax

I got Gary's permission to quote him and I'm glad because I couldn't hold it secret any longer! He is the person who has inspired most of my work and I'm so happy to hear that he likes The Hamlet of Thumble.

Just wanted to share with you all!

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

That's a great idea! Maybe I could release an uncensored version as a PDF. Though I don't know if that allows a free-for-all in terms of content as there is no age verification at on-line RPG stores. I'll have to think about it.

I'd like to hear from as many people as possible on this matter. This PDF idea is pretty good and maybe other solutions could be possible. I'm just worried that restricting content hurts the story. So, please do speak up!

I haven't heard of "The Hamlet of Thumble" but I will make sure I get it soon. Sounds like it's almost two much product for 15 dollars.

As for pdf, I won't be getting it that way as I like something tangible that I can feel. Also I would MUCH rather have the story as intended then to have it striped of it's content but if it must be striped I’m sure I’m smart enough to read between the lines and add as need be. Also don't underestimate just how adult this RPG are anymore... Have you thought about pg-13?

I would also worry that a pdf version would be easier for kids to get their hands on… I mean which is easier for the underage? Going into a bookstore and getting a playboy or going on the Internet and finding something similar?


Anyhow, good luck and I will looked for more from you in the future.

 

[trancejeremy]

I haven't heard of "The Hamlet of Thumble" but I will make sure I get it soon. Sounds like it's almost two much product for 15 dollars.

It almost is - it's impressive how much text they managed to cram into it.

 

[trancejeremy]

This brings me to also asking the rest of you what you think about this. In other words, how do you feel about mature content in d20 products and where should the line be drawn?

While I think there's probably room for all sorts of products (properly labeled), I think the best are sort of like James Bond movies - lots of innuendo, but very little actually happens on screen.

(Well, maybe not as many double entendres)

 

[Buttercup]

Do you think the mature content (sex, violence, and cursing) would turn you off? I'm still debating on whether or not to tone down these elements as I feel that the products should be available to people of all ages. After all, I started playing D&D when I was only eight years old.

Well, I have been known to describe combat graphically, and the swearing isn't an issue for me. The sex, well it depends what you mean. At my table it is more implied than described. I might very well have a BBEG who engaged in unsavory sexual practices, but I wouldn't go into much detail.

Is it possible to make these elements optional? You know, in some computer games these days there is a slider bar in the controls that allows you to control violence and language. Obviously you can't put a slider bar in a book, but Could you provide alternate passages of text for those who feel uncomfortable, or who have children in their games? That would make your product useful regardless of the purchaser's tastes on these matters.

I'll be buying it whatever you do. But I commend you on considering the issue. I agree that it's important to provide game material that can be used by anyone.

Edit: I may be out of touch. Is demon worshiping still an issue? I didn't realize that. I bought Fiend Folio for my library, and put it in the teen section, with all the other D&D stuff. I haven't heard a single peep about it. Book of Vile Darkness, on the other hand, I decided not to buy, because I thought it was a materials challenge waiting to happen. As someone who deals with teens and their parents in an informal setting every day, I'd say sex is a problem, but demons, violence and language aren't so much. At least not in the arch-conservative midwestern city I live in. The people who think, for example, that Harry Potter is satanist, won't be letting their kids play D&D anyway.

 

[Hairy Minotaur]

Oh, by the way, I almost forgot! Here's another reviewer who liked The Hamlet of Thumble... His name is Gary.

"The material is clearly written by a gamer for the enjoyment of
gamers. Hooray!"-- Gary Gygax

"I read the kobold mound encounter and wanted to have a go at it... so that sold me on the whole."-- Gary Gygax

"Innovative."-- Gary Gygax

I got Gary's permission to quote him and I'm glad because I couldn't hold it secret any longer! He is the person who has inspired most of my work and I'm so happy to hear that he likes The Hamlet of Thumble.

Just wanted to share with you all!

Congratulations Ed! You deserve it.

 

[Cybern]

Ed, I haven't read your book, but I have an opinion on the mature themes. I guess the people who have the money to buy much (non-core) RPG stuff are in their late teens or are adults anyway, so I guess you shouldn't sacrifice your story's integrity for a minority of customers.

In my gaming group, the youngest is 22, so we can pretty much do games as we like. While the mature themes are not the main focus of our stories, I have no problems describing succubi acts or gory combat. Text (or speech) has never the same impact as pictures, so I guess if there's no explicit pic people won't complain. Personally, if the BBEG I'm facing acts like a BBEG from the old batman series, I won't get much into the game.

I live in Quebec, and we don't have the same issues with sex / swearing as in the states (we kicked religion out of our moral lives some 30 years ago), so maybe that's why I think that way.

 

[Ed Cha]

I haven't heard of "The Hamlet of Thumble" but I will make sure I get it soon. Sounds like it's almost two much product for 15 dollars.

Thank you so much! I feel like such an ass sometimes when I go on and on about my book on these discussion forums, but it's worth it when I know that people like you will give it a look. I hope you enjoy it! Please share any comments with me after you pick it up.

As for pdf, I won't be getting it that way as I like something tangible that I can feel. Also I would MUCH rather have the story as intended then to have it striped of it's content but if it must be striped I’m sure I’m smart enough to read between the lines and add as need be. Also don't underestimate just how adult this RPG are anymore... Have you thought about pg-13?

I would also worry that a pdf version would be easier for kids to get their hands on… I mean which is easier for the underage? Going into a bookstore and getting a playboy or going on the Internet and finding something similar?

Yes, I'm concerned about accurately portraying the story without including this kind of content in a detailed format. For example, when you have a sinister, perverted demon-seductress who likes to have sex with both men and women and eat them alive during intercourse (as well as devour little children), what do you do? She is supposed to be abominable. She's a demon! Without such descriptive text, it's difficult to make her the loathsome creature she is.

As for the PDF access, you're absolutely right. I don't know how kids would have any less access to PDFs.

Anyhow, good luck and I will looked for more from you in the future.

Thanks so much! I really appreciate it!

 

[Ed Cha]

It almost is - it's impressive how much text they managed to cram into it.

Thanks, Jeremy! Though I think this time, I'm going to try not to have so much material packed in there. There were a couple of comments about how there was actually too much in too tight a space!