Wow, my Wimpzard can finally use a Sword !!!

[Hereticus]

Despite my 06 strength, as an eladrin I felt that I had to carry a longsword. After all, it was in my blood. I never cared to own one, but as I left home for the first time to make my fortune as an adventurer, I needed to have one because for an eladrin not to have one would have brought disgrace to myself, my clan, my city, my race, and to Corellon himself.

I found an old discarded sword in a junk heap, the blade was broken, chipped and rusted, and its hilt was missing. No problem, after casting the Make Whole ritual it was almost as good as new, except for the rust covering it, the dull blade, and lack of a sheath. So I proudly left town with the hilt of the sword tied to my belt, and the point dragging along the ground behind me.

I was damned good at what I did, and that was to cast spells, hide, run away, cast more spells, and tell others what to do. I never had to use my sword in hostility until well into my career as a well known hero. A bugbear broke through the lines of the grunts who were suppose to shield me. I had severely weakened it with spells, so I decided to finish it off with my sword. My first ever swing in hostility was not my best, as evidenced by my roll of 01 on a d20. Fortunately I was able to interrupt its attack with a Shield spell, and it was killed by arrows from my friend the ranger. That was both a terrifying and an embarrassing situation. I never attempted to swing that sword again.

My first positive experience with a blade of any type came when I was able to cast a spell first written by that epic eladrin known to the human world as Mordenkainen. I was able to create a sword by spell and wield it at a distance with my mind. Many successes convinced me to choose the paragon path of the spiral tower. I had acquired a much better sword from a drow who no longer needed it, and I enchanted it up from +1 to +2. I looked good posing with the blade and in taking practice swings at trees and bushes, but I still had to prove it in real combat.

Finally my chance came, my group was ambushed by a band of gnolls. Instead of Fey Stepping away and bombarding them with spells from safety, I whipped out my newly improved drow sword. While still sitting on my Floating Disk I was able to take great swings and kill two of them. The fact that the second was held by an Icy Hand made hitting him that much easier.

That is the story in a nutshell of my character’s sword use so far. The mechanics of standard combat with a sword is easy, but I want to make sure that we are using the Mordenkainen’s Sword power and The One Sword power correctly. These rules are new to all of us and, these were first time uses of higher level powers. We made our best guess rulings, how close (or how far off) were we?

Standard Combat using a Longsword (this was easy):

+06 (level 12/2)
-02 (strength 07)
+03 (weapon proficiency)
+02 (weapon plus)
+09 (total attack bonus) vs AC

-02 (strength 07)
+02 (weapon plus)
1d8 (weapon damage)
0+1d8 (total weapon damage)

Combat using The One Sword (power) | Primary:

+06 (level 12/2)
+06 (intelligence 23)
+03 (weapon proficiency)
+02 (weapon plus)
+17 (total attack bonus) vs Reflex

+06 (intelligence 23)
+02 (weapon plus)
2d8 (weapon damage)
8+2d8 (total weapon damage)

Combat using The One Sword (power) | Secondary:

+06 (level 12/2)
+06 (intelligence 23)
+03 (weapon proficiency)
+02 (weapon plus)
+17 (total attack bonus) vs Will

My opponent is be dazed until the end of next round.

Duration: Sustain for encounter.

Combat using Mordenkainen’s Sword (power):

+06 (level 12/2)
+06 (intelligence 23)
[+03 (weapon proficiency)] we did not include this, but should we have?
+02 (implement plus)
+14 (total attack bonus) vs Reflex

+06 (intelligence 23)
+02 (implement plus)
[+02 (bracers of perfect shot)] we did not include this, but should we have?
1d10 (force damage)
8+1d10 (total force damage)

Target: One creature within range (10 squares)
Duration: Sustain for encounter, can attack new target within range (move 6)

 

[Klaus]

Note: Any character with an ability lower than 08 is houseruled. The minimum PC ability in D&D is 08 (my human rogue's Wisdom, incidently).

When you cast a power with the "Implement" keyword, you never add a weapon proficiency bonus, even if the Implement is a weapon (like daggers for sorcerers or pact blades for warlocks).

 

[RefinedBean]

Note: Any character with an ability lower than 08 is houseruled. The minimum PC ability in D&D is 08 (my human rogue's Wisdom, incidently).

Only house ruled in the RPGA sense. One can always roll a 6!

I actually had to look up whether it's possible. It's not probable, but it is possible.

 

[Hereticus]

Note: Any character with an ability lower than 08 is houseruled. The minimum PC ability in D&D is 08 (my human rogue's Wisdom, incidently).

I asked the DM if I could... and he shrugged his shoulders and said "Why not?"

I make it a point to role play my lack of strength.

When you cast a power with the "Implement" keyword, you never add a weapon proficiency bonus, even if the Implement is a weapon (like daggers for sorcerers or pact blades for warlocks).

Thanks, that's one part of the question down.

 

[Spatula]

Implement powers use your implement bonuses, weapon powers use your weapon bonuses (including proficiency to-hit bonus). Your numbers all look correct, although secondary daze effect of "the one sword" is not sustainable.

Bracers of the Perfect Shot only apply to basic ranged attacks - magic missile or basic attacks with a ranged weapon.

 

[Hereticus]

Combat using The One Sword (power) | Secondary:

+06 (level 12/2)
+06 (intelligence 23)
+03 (weapon proficiency)
+02 (weapon plus)
+17 (total attack bonus) vs Will

My opponent is be dazed until the end of next round.

Duration: Sustain for encounter.

Implement powers use your implement bonuses, weapon powers use your weapon bonuses (including proficiency to-hit bonus). Your numbers all look correct, although secondary daze effect of "the one sword" is not sustainable.

Thank you, but I'm not sure what you mean by "secondary daze effect of 'the one sword' is not sustainable".

Does that mean:
- I can continue with that secondary attack, but my opponent "undazes" after the end of the next round?
- Or I only get one use of the secondary daze attack?

 

[CapnZapp]

There's a feat now allowing Eladrin Wizards to use a sword as their implement.

 

[DracoSuave]

There's a feat now allowing Eladrin Wizards to use a sword as their implement.

Ironicly there's another feat that allows you to use heavy blades (or any other arcane implement of your choice) as an implement for -all- your arcane powers.

What the Eladrin Sword Wizardry does, more importantly, is allow you to use a longsword and benefit as if it were a wand. So, Wand of Accuracy, yo.

 

[Puggins]

Thank you, but I'm not sure what you mean by "secondary daze effect of 'the one sword' is not sustainable".

Does that mean:
- I can continue with that secondary attack, but my opponent "undazes" after the end of the next round?
- Or I only get one use of the secondary daze attack?

Sustain is a specific keyword in 4e. Sustain minor, for example, allows you to continue using that power if you spend a minor action. The power would then tell you exactly what portion of the power is sustained.

The One sword has no such sustain power. What you probably mean by "sustainable" is that The One Sword is not considered expended if the secondary attack hits. Even though you can call this "sustainable" in standard English, you may not call it "sustainable" in terms of D&D rules without confusing quite a few people.

 

[Ryujin]

There's a feat now allowing Eladrin Wizards to use a sword as their implement.

Which I find rather annoying. Not only does that new feat give Eladrin Wizards virtually everything granted by one of the Wizard of the Spiral Tower features, but it also lets them use ANY magic longsword as an implement. Eladrin Warlocks are still limited to Pact Sword.

 

[deleteme123456]

Which I find rather annoying. Not only does that new feat give Eladrin Wizards virtually everything granted by one of the Wizard of the Spiral Tower features, but it also lets them use ANY magic longsword as an implement. Eladrin Warlocks are still limited to Pact Sword.

Eladrin Warlocks could take Arcane Implement Proficiency: Heavy Blades and use a longsword, scimitar, fullblade, you name it... as their implement for all their warlock powers. It can be enchanted as any heavy blade can be. You really don't lose much doing this. Nice for melee 'locks and nice not to have to keep up two enhancement bonuses which gets expensive.

 

[Thanee]

You might want to check out Melee Training in PHB2.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ryujin]

Eladrin Warlocks could take Arcane Implement Proficiency: Heavy Blades and use a longsword, scimitar, fullblade, you name it... as their implement for all their warlock powers. It can be enchanted as any heavy blade can be. You really don't lose much doing this. Nice for melee 'locks and nice not to have to keep up two enhancement bonuses which gets expensive.

I had read that, but had completely missed that Swordmages are an arcane class, so it also applies to swords. For some reason Swordmage always equates to Martial in my head. I'm stuck on "arcane implement" = wand, rod, staff for some reason.

 

[rowport]

Ironicly there's another feat that allows you to use heavy blades (or any other arcane implement of your choice) as an implement for -all- your arcane powers...

What feat is this? I think you might mean Arcane Implement Proficiency, but as I read that, it only lets an arcane caster use another type of implement that their class would not otherwise give them (e.g. orbs, staffs, wands, holy symbols, etc.) not any weapon?

 

[Akaiku]

What feat is this? I think you might mean Arcane Implement Proficiency, but as I read that, it only lets an arcane caster use another type of implement that their class would not otherwise give them (e.g. orbs, staffs, wands, holy symbols, etc.) not any weapon?

Any arcane implement. Luckily, swordmages exist with their heavy blade/light blade implements and their arcane tag. Thusly, any arcane caster can use a dagger or fullblade or whatever to cast spells.

 

[Hereticus]

Sustain is a specific keyword in 4e. Sustain minor, for example, allows you to continue using that power if you spend a minor action. The power would then tell you exactly what portion of the power is sustained.

The One sword has no such sustain power. What you probably mean by "sustainable" is that The One Sword is not considered expended if the secondary attack hits. Even though you can call this "sustainable" in standard English, you may not call it "sustainable" in terms of D&D rules without confusing quite a few people.

Yes, it is quite confusing.

The way we ruled it during the game is that I only got the secondary attack on my first turn, and the hit lasted until the end of my next round.

What was "sustained" was that I could continue using the primary attack of the sword for the entire encounter (because I hit with my secondary attack).

 

[Hereticus]

There's a feat now allowing Eladrin Wizards to use a sword as their implement.

If I were designing the game, I would not have done that. The Spiral Tower Paragon Path was designed specifically for Eladrin Wizards.

What I see as the major difference between the Paragon Path and the Feat is that the former allows me to attack with my Intelligence, which is far superior to my Strength.

 

[CapnZapp]

Ironicly there's another feat that allows you to use heavy blades (or any other arcane implement of your choice) as an implement for -all- your arcane powers.

This was enough for me to shake my head in confusion, but not to understand what feat was referred to.

Luckily, someone came along to make a helpful explanation:

Any arcane implement. Luckily, swordmages exist with their heavy blade/light blade implements and their arcane tag. Thusly, any arcane caster can use a dagger or fullblade or whatever to cast spells.

Doesn't this smack of a mistake? I wouldn't be surprised if the feat designer had forgotten about the Swordmage. After all, this combo is only legit if you utilize the Forgotten Realms books.

Even if no errata is forthcoming, I'm inclined to houserule it as such. Doesn't make sense to open up almost all weaponry just because of the existence of a single class - the feat should possibly have specified the "implementy" implements...

 

[CapnZapp]

If I were designing the game, I would not have done that. The Spiral Tower Paragon Path was designed specifically for Eladrin Wizards.

What I see as the major difference between the Paragon Path and the Feat is that the former allows me to attack with my Intelligence, which is far superior to my Strength.

If that was true, then you wouldn't have much to worry about - the PP would still be preferable and the feat would be a mere curiosity.

However, if I get to use a sword as my implement, nothing says I must switch my attack stat. In fact, I would expect there to be specific language to this effect, if it was the case.

So unfortunately for you, I don't see anything in that feat that prevents you from keeping using Int (or Cha or whatever) for your sword-as-implement attacks...

 

[Hereticus]

So unfortunately for you, I don't see anything in that feat that prevents you from keeping using Int (or Cha or whatever) for your sword-as-implement attacks...

I haven't read the Feat yet, this question should be posed to the Rules Lawyers at WotC.

But as far as I can interpret from what was written here, what ever gave a Wizard (with the feat) the ability to use its Intelligence for a martial attack in the first place?