D&D (2024) Wrapping up first 2-20 2024 campaign this week, some of my thoughts

[TwoSix]

It's such an extreme example lacking so many details it's not setting much of a baseline. What did a typical encounter look like? What was the environment, the setup, the monsters used? Do they get short and long rests whenever they want? Did the DM even attempt to make the encounters more challenging?

But it's not an extreme example, is the point. They received extreme results from a pretty mundane setup. 5 players in a module known for being moderately challenging from a company that's pretty well-known with no major house rules seems like a pretty solid baseline.

And having a decent number of very rare and rare items in Tier 4 is hardly outside the normal parameters, nor is the players having some input into what gets made. 2024 didn't add crafting rules with the expectation that the normal table wouldn't have magic items.

And if they used too many...well, that's tough to say, since too many is going to be a function of learned experience since there's little guidance on the correct amount.

 

[mamba]

Then the DM needs to adjust their game in response. Just like I've had to adjust for different groups and different mixes of PCs, just like I'm still figuring out the correct balance now in my game.

sure, but the point remains that the power went up, and you have to up the encounters as a consequence (and/or nerf some of the new stuff). That is basically the same as what the OP says

 

[mamba]

It's such an extreme example lacking so many details it's not setting much of a baseline.

then ask, some of that has been answered already too…

What did a typical encounter look like? What was the environment, the setup, the monsters used? Do they get short and long rests whenever they want? Did the DM even attempt to make the encounters more challenging?

short rests they did not need much, the cleric (?) took care of that with some ability / spell well enough that SR were rarely even needed

 

[Stalker0]

It's such an extreme example lacking so many details it's not setting much of a baseline. What did a typical encounter look like? What was the environment, the setup, the monsters used? Do they get short and long rests whenever they want? Did the DM even attempt to make the encounters more challenging?

If I were to say "D&D monsters are overpowered because I used an Adult Red Dragon against a level 1 party and killed them in 1 round" people would rightfully say that it's not an example of much of anything other than poor encounter design. Why is it so bad to say that the encounters were poorly designed when it goes the other way?

then ask, some of that has been answered already too…


short rests they did not need much, the cleric (?) took care of that with some ability / spell well enough that SR were rarely even needed

It was prayer of healing which can give short rest benefits. The party used it a lot according to the OP

 

[Stalker0]

2024 didn't add crafting rules with the expectation that the normal table wouldn't have magic items.

And if they used too many...well, that's tough to say, since too many is going to be a function of learned experience since there's little guidance on the correct amount.

Is there guidance on the crafting rules? Ultimately it’s in the book but is it an assumed default or more of a variant rule?

 

[Lazybones]

Is there guidance on the crafting rules? Ultimately it’s in the book but is it an assumed default or more of a variant rule?

I didn't see anything in the DMG to suggest that magic item crafting is an optional rule. Ultimately it's another one of those things that's up to the DM. An average party earning book-standard treasure based on the tables in the DMG should have no trouble manufacturing whatever they want appropriate to their tier of play, assuming that there is no external timetable directing events. The DMG suggests that the DM should roll on the Random Treasure Hoard table "about once per game session." Per that table, a CR 5-10 monster that has a treasure hoard should have about 4,400gp worth of monetary treasure, which is enough to craft two Rare items or 22 Uncommon items. Finding the raw materials can be an issue, but if you're in a city it's a 75% chance, with rerolls allowed every week, so again unless there is a time pressure that's not a big problem. This assumes, of course, that the player characters have selected the appropriate proficiencies and are interested in creating magic items. But as a purely mental exercise based on RAW in the DMG, it's an extremely powerful option. I mean, based on the example above, one CR 5-10 hoard would be enough to kit out everyone in the party with armor that casts shield 6/day and winged boots.

I am running one 2024 campaign right now and am developing another. Until I get a better handle on the new ruleset I am trying to follow the default rules, allowing item crafting and bastions, but this is definitely something I'm keeping an eye on. My new campaign is set in a frontier area, so finding the raw materials to craft items is more challenging (25% chance, as opposed to 75% in a city), and I'm trying to build in some generic quests that can be customized to specific ingredients for items that the players might be interested in crafting.

 

[Oofta]

I didn't see anything in the DMG to suggest that magic item crafting is an optional rule. Ultimately it's another one of those things that's up to the DM. An average party earning book-standard treasure based on the tables in the DMG should have no trouble manufacturing whatever they want appropriate to their tier of play, assuming that there is no external timetable directing events. The DMG suggests that the DM should roll on the Random Treasure Hoard table "about once per game session." Per that table, a CR 5-10 monster that has a treasure hoard should have about 4,400gp worth of monetary treasure, which is enough to craft two Rare items or 22 Uncommon items. Finding the raw materials can be an issue, but if you're in a city it's a 75% chance, with rerolls allowed every week, so again unless there is a time pressure that's not a big problem. This assumes, of course, that the player characters have selected the appropriate proficiencies and are interested in creating magic items. But as a purely mental exercise based on RAW in the DMG, it's an extremely powerful option. I mean, based on the example above, one CR 5-10 hoard would be enough to kit out everyone in the party with armor that casts shield 6/day and winged boots.

I am running one 2024 campaign right now and am developing another. Until I get a better handle on the new ruleset I am trying to follow the default rules, allowing item crafting and bastions, but this is definitely something I'm keeping an eye on. My new campaign is set in a frontier area, so finding the raw materials to craft items is more challenging (25% chance, as opposed to 75% in a city), and I'm trying to build in some generic quests that can be customized to specific ingredients for items that the players might be interested in crafting.

I'm allowing crafting but I've also decided that you need instructions and potentially rare items in order to craft anything more powerful than common. I also don't hand out that much gold in the first place, they end up spending most of it on potions and scrolls for healing.

 

[Oofta]

partial, sure, 10 resistance rings will not make the boss go down in one round though, and yet they frequently did

Also, as far as I can tell they played basically by the 2024 rules, including crafting as described. If following the plain rules as written leads to this, then maybe the rules aren’t so great too though

But it's not an extreme example, is the point. They received extreme results from a pretty mundane setup. 5 players in a module known for being moderately challenging from a company that's pretty well-known with no major house rules seems like a pretty solid baseline.

And having a decent number of very rare and rare items in Tier 4 is hardly outside the normal parameters, nor is the players having some input into what gets made. 2024 didn't add crafting rules with the expectation that the normal table wouldn't have magic items.

And if they used too many...well, that's tough to say, since too many is going to be a function of learned experience since there's little guidance on the correct amount.

One random example where the group where the majority of combats are over in one round and never longer than two is not indicative of any sort of issue. IMHO it's indicative of a DM who is not compensating for the power level of the group. An occasional fight that's not as difficult as expected? It happens. Every single fight? It's not an issue with the rules of the game, there is no rule that limits how many monsters are in an encounter or when or where they appear.

If a DM was TPKing their group in one round on a regular basis, we would all recognize that there's an issue with the encounter design. Flipping that around? I see no reason to see it any different.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

Seems to me that if you allow players full agency over their magic items through crafting, the entire system comes crumbling down. It's almost like we should restrict the players for pacing and power reasons. If only WotC could have foresaw this.

Instead we shove more and more options and powers at them and than are surprised when their power levels breaks the game as written. It was a very strange decision.

 

[mamba]

One random example where the group where the majority of combats are over in one round and never longer than two is not indicative of any sort of issue. IMHO it's indicative of a DM who is not compensating for the power level of the group.

it’s the same DM and style of play they have been doing with 2014 for years. The fact remains that things are easier now with 2024 when everything else stayed essentially the same (same players, same DM, different adventure but one they said is harder than vanilla WotC…)