Wu Jen spell specialty

[Hecatæus]

I don't have the Oriental Adventures book, but this argument came up last night:

At third level and each third level thereafter, a Wu must pick one of her spells to be special, using one of the Metamagic feats for that spell automatically and without using a feat slot for it.

The problem is that for whatever reason the Wu Jen has difficulty getting spells...for whatever reason Wu Jen spells and wizard spells are incompatible in our campaign...unless I am mistaken.

The Rule did say "At third level..." so does this typically mean at level-up from second to third that this must be done? Or does it mean that at any point during third level?

If it is the later, then the Wu Jen gal can 'hope' to come across a decent spell during third level. If not she is going for some sort of Blossom spell: Cherry Blossoms for a WHOLE HOUR ...woo hoo.

 

[hong]

The problem is that for whatever reason the Wu Jen has difficulty getting spells...for whatever reason Wu Jen spells and wizard spells are incompatible in our campaign...unless I am mistaken.

They shouldn't be, according to the rules. If an arcane spell is on both the sor/wiz and wu jen spell lists, a wu jen should be able to pick up and use scrolls for it, whoever it was scribed by. This must be a house rule in your group.

The Rule did say "At third level..." so does this typically mean at level-up from second to third that this must be done? Or does it mean that at any point during third level?

Typically, you have to choose all the bennies that you get, at the time you level up. However, from the sounds of it, your group is imposing further restrictions on what the wu jen can do. It would be reasonable in this case to go easy on her.

 

[strongbow]

Since you don't have the OA book, a few rules clarifications. As stated in OA, a wu jen chooses spells off the wu jen spell list NOT the sorceror/wizard spell list. Just as sorcerors can't choose a cleric only spell to learn, a PC may not learn spells that are not on his list without special circumstances. The OA book even goes so far to say that a wu jen cannot learn sorceror/wizard spells that are not on his/her wu jen list. If you really want to know the page reference, I can thumb through my OA book tonight.

Either the PHB or the DMG (I think it's the DMG) has information about feat selection, with general guidelines that could logically extend to class abilities as well. The book says that there are 3 ways the DM can allow feats to be selected:

1) Immediately upon gaining a level
2) Sometime during the level
3) At anytime afterwards

Each option is potentially more abusive than the one before it. The book gives an example of one of the iconic PCs fighting a mind flayer and suddenly deciding that would be a good time to develop Iron Will. Also, there is the question of training/no training when you are talking about feats.

Let me ask you this as an example for class abilities. If you were playing a ranger and made 5th level, when would you choose your favored enemy? Option 1,2, or 3?

I don't think that it's too much to ask to be able to wait sometime during 3rd level to apply the spell secret.

That being said, in the campaign I'm in right now, the DM has allowed the wu jen to select his spells from the sorceror/wizard list. He gives up his elemental focus ability, and may not select wu jen spells. It's less Oriental flavor, but he gives up a class ability. Of course, the purists would call this sacrilege, but it was rule 0ed.

 

[hong]

Since you don't have the OA book, a few rules clarifications. As stated in OA, a wu jen chooses spells off the wu jen spell list NOT the sorceror/wizard spell list.

... which have about 80% of their spells in common, if not more. Unless the DM is going out of his way to only make sor/wiz spells available that aren't on the wu jen list, gaining more spells shouldn't be that difficult for the wu jen.

Just as sorcerors can't choose a cleric only spell to learn, a PC may not learn spells that are not on his list without special circumstances. The OA book even goes so far to say that a wu jen cannot learn sorceror/wizard spells that are not on his/her wu jen list.

Of course. It's no different to, say, the situation with bards and wizards.

 

[PenguinKing]

... which have about 80% of their spells in common, if not more. Unless the DM is going out of his way to only make sor/wiz spells available that aren't on the wu jen list, gaining more spells shouldn't be that difficult for the wu jen. .

The text could also be interpretted to mean that spells that are on both the sor/wiz list and the wu jen list cannot be learned from a scroll by the wu jen if the author of the scroll was a wizard or sorcerer (and vice-versa, of course). Hence, all the DM has to do is have all the arcane scrolls found in his adventures be written by wizards or sorcerers rather than wu jen, and bingo - no spells for Mr. Oriental Spellcaster.

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[hong]

The text could also be interpretted to mean that spells that are on both the sor/wiz list and the wu jen list cannot be learned from a scroll by the wu jen if the author of the scroll was a wizard or sorcerer (and vice-versa, of course). Hence, all the DM has to do is have all the arcane scrolls found in his adventures be written by wizards or sorcerers rather than wu jen, and bingo - no spells for Mr. Oriental Spellcaster.

I assume you're referring to the text in H.'s post, because I can't find any text in OA that suggests wu jen spells are treated differently to any other sort of arcane spell. In which case, it's as I said -- it's a house rule.

 

[PenguinKing]

I assume you're referring to the text in H.'s post, because I can't find any text in OA that suggests wu jen spells are treated differently to any other sort of arcane spell. In which case, it's as I said -- it's a house rule.

Oh, it's there - when I get home I'll get my OA out and give you a free demonstration of how to twist th' semantics 'til they bleed to come to the conclusion I just outlined.

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[strongbow]

The reason that I was being so emphatic in my statements is that I have run into a lot of people that houserule that wu jen can take sorceror/wizard spells. This houserule is so popular that a lot of people that I knowwho don't have the OA book think that the houserule is the default rule.

I think that it's unfair to let wu jen choose off the sorceror/wizard spell list, and then let them still scribe/use wu jen scrolls. Common spells aside, that's like getting two classes worth of spells. As someone who plays a Shaman every Monday, I would love to be able to use scrolls with cleric spells on them, but I can't.

All debating aside, do you have any more questions, Hecatæus?

P.S. We'll see how much Sir Bob twists the semantics

 

[smetzger]

Oh, it's there - when I get home I'll get my OA out and give you a free demonstration of how to twist th' semantics 'til they bleed to come to the conclusion I just outlined.

I just read the Wu Jen entry and the intro to Spells. The only thing I saw that supported this was:
"The Wu Jen can also add spells found in the spellboks of other wu jen." [last sentence of the Spellbooks section]
Taken literally and exclusively I suppose one could say that thats the 'only' other way to add spells to your spell book.

I think this fails the common sense test.

Of course a Wu Jen could have a taboo against Wizard Spellbooks and scrolls

 

[Voadam]

feat selections

Strongbow, if you have a page reference on the discussion of picking feats could you please post it, I've been wondering about this for a while.