Wulf's Collected Story Hour -- FINAL UPDATE 12/25

[Jeremy]

If you say so. Increasing the scry DC is good and all but there is still a good chance a higher level caster will make the check.

Considering how prevalent Scry/Teleport raids are, anything that makes either more difficult is good in my book.

I mean come on.. DC 10 to scry someone you've seen before? I can make that just on INT much less ranks... Besides, the spell is stationary (it doesn't move with you), and until you are 8th-10th level it won't even last through the night. "Broken" is a word best saved for Shadow Storm and Titan's Strength.

 

[Vymair]

If you say so. Increasing the scry DC is good and all but there is still a good chance a higher level caster will make the check.

I mean come on.. DC 10 to scry someone you've seen before? I can make that just on INT much less ranks... Besides, the spell is stationary (it doesn't move with you), and until you are 8th-10th level it won't even last through the night. "Broken" is a word best saved for Shadow Storm and Titan's Strength.

It's worse than that. Why not just take 10. It's automatic. This is why I'm upping the difficulty for scrying (as a house rule) in my next game.

 

[Nail]

After th' experiences in Wulf's story hour, I'd imagine quite a few DMs will be looking over the scry - teleport combo. I will, that's fer sure.

Looking over at th' Rules forum, as well as the House Rules and General forum here on ENBoards, it seems this is a systemic 3e problem. It's just way too easy to scry someone without much in the way of repercusions or "disads." Virtually no defences in th' Core Rules, either.

I'd vote fer making Scry (and equivalents) much harder skill checks(a la SKR's article), and add in some substantial defensive spells and (wit' a tip o' th' helm to Wulf) "new uses for old skills".

Hey, "Hide" has got t' be useful fer something at high levels. Why not as a defence against scrying? Hiding is as much a mental as physical discipline........Scry tries to magically "find" you, and you try to "hide".

 

[Victim]

If you say so. Increasing the scry DC is good and all but there is still a good chance a higher level caster will make the check.

Considering how prevalent Scry/Teleport raids are, anything that makes either more difficult is good in my book.

I mean come on.. DC 10 to scry someone you've seen before? I can make that just on INT much less ranks... Besides, the spell is stationary (it doesn't move with you), and until you are 8th-10th level it won't even last through the night. "Broken" is a word best saved for Shadow Storm and Titan's Strength.

Yes, scrying is so easy that you can get away with putting only a handful of ranks into it.

That's exactly why increasing the DC can be effective. It prevents casual scrying, like from my cleric with +5 scrying. I admit that increasing the DC, even by 20, won't help much against someone with maximum ranks in scry though.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

There's nothing wrong with Scry, certainly nothing wrong with Static Veil.

My fix would be to change teleport to read more like dimension door: Once you cross through, you cannot take any other action for a full round until you get your orientation.

I'd give the folks on the receiving end a Spot check (DC20) to act during that brief moment. They may or may not be surprised, but they would not be disoriented.

And as the DM my first action would probably be a big blanket dispel magic to take out all the buffs.

Then it's GAME ON!


Wulf

PS-- Don't forget the important role of Forbiddance in protecting the evil hideout.

 

[Destil]

There's nothing wrong with Scry, certainly nothing wrong with Static Veil.

My fix would be to change teleport to read more like dimension door: Once you cross through, you cannot take any other action for a full round until you get your orientation.

I'd give the folks on the receiving end a Spot check (DC20) to act during that brief moment. They may or may not be surprised, but they would not be disoriented.

And as the DM my first action would probably be a big blanket dispel magic to take out all the buffs.

Then it's GAME ON!


Wulf

PS-- Don't forget the important role of Forbiddance in protecting the evil hideout.

I've applied a very similar fix, myself, to Teleport, in order to stop a 5th level spell from being so umber for rading and bring it down to more of a travel spell:

Teleport: Three rounds before you arrive a faint arcane/psionic beacon/display appears at your destination (Spot check DC 25), and on the following round it flares & glows brightly, becoming completely obvious to anyone (Spot DC 0). A successful spellcraft check / psicraft check (DC 15 + spell level for during the faint round and 10 + spell level during the flaring round) allows you to identify the spell or power, if you beat the DC by 20 or higher you're also aware of the exact location being teleported from, reletive to the destination. This beacon can be taken down with a targeted dispel or negation, rebounding those teleported back to their initial location and dealing them 1d10 damage. Unless the beacon goes unnoticed everyone aware of the teleportation in the area, may act in a suprise round.

(The problem is also helped quite a bit by a varity of spells in the book of Elderitch Might & psionic powers in the PsiHB. I suppose the problem became appearant after the Core rules were done, or was a Sacred Cow issue.)

 

[Bronz Dragon]

There are also nasty little tricks like a wondrous item that glows whenever a scrying spell is targeted within a certain radius and points in the direction of a magic disturbance (Detect Scrying, Detect Magic), such as teleport. Nice little early warning system.

Not sure what it would cost, but when you start getting into higher level encounters involving spellcasters, it's definitely worth the peace of mind.

'course, DMs will only be able to use this trick once or twice before the party is swimming in anti-scrying devices. However, you could also start up a little war with a cult of some god who confers the trickery domain. (I tried it once, but didn't plan it out well enough)

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

The "solution" I plan for my campaign is a different, slight change to teleport (which I've seen mentioned by someone on ENworld, but I don't know who).

Teleport routes people through the timeless astral plane and this makes all current spell durations expire.

This means that scry + teleport will work, but buff+scry+teleport so you arrive all buffed up *won't* work, which seems one of the really big problems to me.

Cheers

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Yes the spell is stationary. What does this matter when you cast it at night before bedding down?

Also a party should not have to worry about sry/teleport attacks this they are about 8th level or more. At that level the spell will last through the night.

I mean come on.. DC 10 to scry someone you've seen before? I can make that just on INT much less ranks... Besides, the spell is stationary (it doesn't move with you), and until you are 8th-10th level it won't even last through the night. "Broken" is a word best saved for Shadow Storm and Titan's Strength.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I disagree completely. Static Veil someone said was 2nd level and last 1 hour per level. On the other hand Detect Scry is 4th level. I think it is a bit unbalanced at 1/2 the level of detect scry.

Also scrying itself is a 4th level spell. How often is the defense again an spell another spell that is half its level?

There's nothing wrong with Scry, certainly nothing wrong with Static Veil.

Wulf

PS-- Don't forget the important role of Forbiddance in protecting the evil hideout.