Hammerhead
Explorer
Wulf Ratbane said:
You tease.
Does anyone else hold the opinion that with Divine Favor and Divine Power, that Persistent Spell might be overpowered?
How did those Slayer levels work out?
Wulf's Collected Story Hour -- FINAL UPDATE 12/25
- Thread starter Wulf Ratbane
- Start date
You tease.
Does anyone else hold the opinion that with Divine Favor and Divine Power, that Persistent Spell might be overpowered?
How did those Slayer levels work out?
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Hammerhead said:
I haven't really come up against my favored enemy since I took Slayer.
I am comforted by the knowledge that I will, however, and then, look out momma! Eat +1 damage! Even if somehow I only do 1 point of damage per strike, with favored enemy I am killing them twice as fast!
Think about THAT!
Wulf
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Wulf Ratbane said:
What favored enemy did you take?
Do share!
(Like the cover preview of HOHF:Elves BTW!)
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Wulf Ratbane said:
My favourite quote of the session!
BTW, I notice that the steel predators are now far less hassle to kill than when you first met one in the planar city... does that reflect improved levels, improved magic weaponry, improved tactics... or some combination of the above?
Cheers
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Plane Sailing said:
Greater Magic Weapon was the key... Plus, I think I am a little harder to grapple with than anybody else, and if they do grapple anybody else, I rip em a new one.
Dinkeldog always forgets to take -20 to his grapple check so that he doesn't lose his Dex bonus.
Wulf
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Same here re: persistant spell.
The fact is, some spells last 1r/level, some last 1min/level, some 10ming/level and some 1hour/level. Since you could extend Bulls Strength 1 or 2 times and have it running all day, that isn't much of a problem... but spells that normally have a duration measured in minutes?
That was the main reason I originally disallowed it as a feat IMC - the benefit of persistanting a short duration spell was the overkill factor.
I guess that what you'd see in its place though is Dorn taking "Craft Wondrous Item" instead, and making an item which gave Divine Power to the wearer all the time. At least he'd have to spend time and xp to do that though!
(another thought - where does the persistant feat stand wrt the permanency spell? Why introduce a feat that can apparently affect a wider number of spells at no cost?)
Cheers
The fact is, some spells last 1r/level, some last 1min/level, some 10ming/level and some 1hour/level. Since you could extend Bulls Strength 1 or 2 times and have it running all day, that isn't much of a problem... but spells that normally have a duration measured in minutes?
That was the main reason I originally disallowed it as a feat IMC - the benefit of persistanting a short duration spell was the overkill factor.
I guess that what you'd see in its place though is Dorn taking "Craft Wondrous Item" instead, and making an item which gave Divine Power to the wearer all the time. At least he'd have to spend time and xp to do that though!
(another thought - where does the persistant feat stand wrt the permanency spell? Why introduce a feat that can apparently affect a wider number of spells at no cost?)
Cheers
KidCthulhu
First Post
Plane Sailing said:
See, I've got to disagree with you on this one. That seems arbitrary and just a little cruel to me. For one thing, what about buff spells with wildly different durations, say Haste vs. Bull's Strength. It just seems a little like Deus Ex Machnications.
I'd rather see better chances for the enemy to know you're coming (like enemies who have Detect Scrying and are waiting when you arrive, than a change that messes with your player's planning. I always think it's better to let the party make the best plan possible and then have the enemies react, than to prohibt or mess with what they can do to prepare. It's all about rewarding them for being clever, rather than hosing them for it.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Well, bear in mind that nobody in my campaign has teleport or scry yet, so I'm sort of testing out possibilities. I don't mind players being clever (when the wizard decides to put his fly + invisibility + spells together, that will be fine for instance... he just hasn't really thought about that yet).
It is just that the buff + scry + teleport routine is so easy to do at high levels, that the good guys would find themselves on the recieving end (since it would be stupid for capable bad guys not to do it). If one side turns up to a fight with all buff spells in place and the other hasn't... in 3e that will swing the balance widely IMO. Detect Scry isn't particularly useful since the victim will say "hey, I'm being scried" then *pop* the party arrives with several rounds worth of pre-cast spells on them! He doesn't have *time* to prepare any defences unless he has contingency to teleport himself away as soon as scrying is detected...
It isn't quite as bad as the 1e mage who used scry and then "vanish" to transport magical bombs onto his victims (now outlawed in 3e) but I want to write in some kind of limitation. Otherwise it doesn't even matter that an opponent can detect he is being scried upon, since the next second a party arrive loaded for war...
Within this limitation I believe that PC's will still be able to come up with clever tactics; it will just make a particularly lethal kind of ambush impossible.
(alternatives would be to make Scry an opposed check, which would work but would make it much, much harder to find people, to use disorientation from a teleport like Dim Door (which someone has suggested, but which I personally consider truly nerfing the power with a deus ex.), to make scry show the person clearly but everything else out of focus, for tougher teleports...)
I'm not against scry + teleport, just the arriving fully buffed portion of the ploy.
It is just that the buff + scry + teleport routine is so easy to do at high levels, that the good guys would find themselves on the recieving end (since it would be stupid for capable bad guys not to do it). If one side turns up to a fight with all buff spells in place and the other hasn't... in 3e that will swing the balance widely IMO. Detect Scry isn't particularly useful since the victim will say "hey, I'm being scried" then *pop* the party arrives with several rounds worth of pre-cast spells on them! He doesn't have *time* to prepare any defences unless he has contingency to teleport himself away as soon as scrying is detected...
It isn't quite as bad as the 1e mage who used scry and then "vanish" to transport magical bombs onto his victims (now outlawed in 3e) but I want to write in some kind of limitation. Otherwise it doesn't even matter that an opponent can detect he is being scried upon, since the next second a party arrive loaded for war...
Within this limitation I believe that PC's will still be able to come up with clever tactics; it will just make a particularly lethal kind of ambush impossible.
(alternatives would be to make Scry an opposed check, which would work but would make it much, much harder to find people, to use disorientation from a teleport like Dim Door (which someone has suggested, but which I personally consider truly nerfing the power with a deus ex.), to make scry show the person clearly but everything else out of focus, for tougher teleports...)
I'm not against scry + teleport, just the arriving fully buffed portion of the ploy.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Plane Sailing said:
Here's a tactic: Enemy mage detects the scrying, then either casts an anti-magic shell and hightails it out of the spell radius, or readies an action to cast a dispel magic/greater dispel magic if someone teleports in.
Sure, he doesn't have as much time for his personal buffs, but party arrives and *pop* their preparations disappear because their scry was detected.
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