+X Items: Sacred Cow or Holy Burger?

Are +X items a good thing?

  • Yes, they belong in the game.

    Votes: 58 40.0%
  • No, they should go away.

    Votes: 68 46.9%
  • Don't care/Not sure

    Votes: 19 13.1%

Instead of giving items or the gold to buy them couldn't you just bestow upon characters the bonuses directly?

Or use that option and then let people choose whether the bonus goes to them or their item?
 

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I'd be happy for them to be gone. They are in the maths of 4E so I need to house rule (although it is easy) to get rid of them. I'd much prefer a 'flaming sword' which does the appropriate tier of flaming damage/effects and the pluses are included in PC advancement...some how.
 

I don't like the "+x" bonuses very much, simply because I would prefer to see more powerful weapons actually have more flavorful bonuses... Actually, I wouldn't mind having the option of simply not using magical items in a campaign, without having to redo all of the math.

Really, the big problem with various "+x" bonuses is that they make certain kinds of character/race/class concepts more difficult. The problems with making the Monk's fists into a competitive weapon in a plausible way exemplifies this issue, but it is just as problematic for races that use natural weapons or can't hold an implement or manufactured weapon for some reason.
 

+X items were never much of a problem as long as they were treated as magic items rather than gear. Once you have a system that assumes +X items at a given level and design the whole system around a character needing these items (and for them to keep increasing in + on sort of fixed schedule) then they kind of become a pain to manage.
Hear, hear.

Much more of an issue, I'd guess, in the newer editions; where things are expected to scale slightly faster than the characters gain levels and-or fighting ability. In older editions, the only necessary thing was to at some point have a magic weapon at all, as lots of mid-level foes required a +1 or better weapon to hit. (some really tough ones needed +2 to hit; big deal) The question then becomes, can that dependence in the newer editions be designed out without too many ugly knock-on effects? I think it can, given lots of DM work behind the scenes tweaking the monsters to suit.

I've seen PCs hang on to a +1 sword with a history and a name longer they did a bland +3.

Lan-"I never met a magic sword I didn't like"-efan
 

In my game we use the house-rule that at 3rd, 8th, 13th, 18th, 23rd, and 28th you get a "heroic bonus" to attack, damage, AC and defenses.

This does not stack with magic item bonuses, but can be superceded by a higher-level magic item bonus. As such, my players have stuck with magic items they got at 6th level and they're now 13th. It works out well when a +1 flaming sword is now a +3 flaming sword at 13th level.

The players love the change.
 

For me, there just isn't very much magic in a "plus X" item. If this is one of many features that a given item has, it's more bearable, but still not very imagintive to me. Just a straight "plus X" bonus? That's not evocative of any fantasy that I have an interest in.
 

In my game we use the house-rule that at 3rd, 8th, 13th, 18th, 23rd, and 28th you get a "heroic bonus" to attack, damage, AC and defenses.

This does not stack with magic item bonuses, but can be superceded by a higher-level magic item bonus. As such, my players have stuck with magic items they got at 6th level and they're now 13th. It works out well when a +1 flaming sword is now a +3 flaming sword at 13th level.

The players love the change.
I am glad that this change does actually works :)

I would however suggest changing the levels from 8, 18 and 28 to either 7,17 and 27 or 9,19 and 29, otherwise you get a +2/3 to hit at these levels. (+1/2 level,+1 heroic, +1 to main stat (which should make it an even number) and maybe you also spend a feat which gives a conditional attack bonus

I would suggest increasing at 3 and 7 (whenever you get a new encounter power)
but 5 and 9 would work as well (maybe 5 is problematic if you use expertise)

Heroic: 0,1,2*,3,
3,4,5*,6,
6,7
Paragon: 7,8,9*,10
10,11,12*,13
13,14 ...
 

I have no idea why nobody (that I know of) has thought of this before. This is brilliant. I'd love to see the game go this route, where "accuracy" (or whatever) is just another property that magic weapons can have, and otherwise the notion of "+X" goes away to be replaced by more interesting properties.

Isn't it essentially 3E? You had to choose between +5 or +3 Holy. Sure, you could stack multiple properties, but the basic idea was still the same - you choose between what special abilities your weapons have.

The +X is pretty boring. But the advantage is that it keeps players motivated to search for new magical stuff. Maybe the "wonder" of finding a +4 weapon after you own a +3 weapon is weak, but if you have a Flaming Longsword, are you really more interested in a Longsword of Frost?

So, you might find a new, cool magical item - and throw it away. Uniqueness and specialness of finding something new is gone.

If you don't throw it away, isn't it very likely that you end up lumping around 10+ different magical weapons that you all liked and keep around for "optimization" purposes? That was 3E had, too. Golfbag Syndrom - usually you might use your +2 Silver Holy Evil Outsider Bane Battleaxe, but when dealing with Golems, you put out that +1 Construct and Undead Bane Admantite Battleaxe that you put next to your +1 Cold Iron Evil Outsider and Dragonbane Throwing Axe.
Again, magical items just are a common tool.

A +x weapon clearly becomes obsolete and can be sold (3E) or disenchanted (4E) to get something better. If you really loved the Flaming property your weapon had, you could acquire (build, buy, search) another one at a higher plus.

In the end, keeping around plusses or not, the real "flavor" problem is that magical items are common and that you are forced into choices whether to keep them or discard them.

The only real compensation is that you never find more than one item of a specific type, and it grows with you, gaining new special abilities. In that case, you probably don't need +x weapons.
 

I really like the 'item familiar' option in Unearthed Arcana. That produced unique and interesting items which scaled with their owner.

Cheers,
Dan
 
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For my next game (3.5) I'll be using scaling weapons that increase in plusses as the characters advance for weapons above a certain level.

+1 and +2 weapons will be redefined as "not magic" but just really good whether because of master craftsmanship or high quality materials. I'll be trying to redefine as many minor magic items as I can as alchemical in nature.
 

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