X2 *spoilers*

[Chun-tzu]

11) Wolverine could smell who Mystique was in the last movie. Why not this one?

This wasn't so strange. In the first movie, he was actively sniffing for her, fully alert and on the look-out. In the second, he was half-asleep, and he _wanted_ to believe it was really Jean.

 

[John Crichton]

1) Nightcrawler was super badass in the first scene. I knew from that moment that he would be incompetent by comparison for the rest of the film. They could have done some kind of brainwashing explanation (make him a sleeper agent), but they just went with the drip. Lame.

Not a plot hole, just something that you didn't like. I had no problem with it at all as the same technique was used on Lady Deathstrike, Cyclops & Magneto, not to mention a more powerful version on Professor X.

And Nightcrawler was not incompentent by comparison in the rest of the film. He was fighting regular men with guns plus he had no reguard for his own welfare as he was sent on a death mission. The heroics he displayed later in the film (while not as stunning nor did it look as cool) were much more difficult in comparison.

3) The whole break-in to the base. They had Magneto with them, and then they launch this complicated plan to attack a base mostly made out of metal.

Yeah, but they wanted to keep Professor X and the kidnapped kids alive. And that base was (as you saw) holding back water. Magneto, while powerful, can't do it all himself.

5) For that matter, why didn't Magneto and Mystique just steal the jet and go themselves? They didn't need any help, and bringing the others along is just asking to get thwarted.

He would have had to kill the others to get the jet. Storm would have assumably stopped him.

7) The worst scene of the movie was the Jean Grey death scene. When your climax is the worst scene, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. If Jean can flip all those switches from outside the ship, there was no reason she couldn't have stopped the water from outside the ship.

EDIT (oops, forget to respond to this one):It did seem like should could get the jet going from inside but there is nothing that showed that she could have held the water at bay from inside the jet. Additionally, it certainly seemed like something else was at play in that scene that drove her to leave the jet and the rest of the X-men. [end EDIT]

9) At the beginning of the movie, and on the plane, Nightcrawler had no problem teleporting where he couldn't see (too accurately for my taste, actually). At the end, he was scared he would run into something when he was about to teleport through a door. Last time I checked, most people don't build walls on the other sides of doors.

There's more than just walls to worry about. There is the floor as well. If it is at a different elevation or there is someone standing there, that would be bad. And as for the place rescue, that is easy. Makes one quick teleport outside the plane, looks down, sees Rogue, teleports to her then back to the plane.

The movie came across like it was written by 14 different people who didn't talk to each other. Individual scenes were good, but it was so horribly inconsistent and full of plot holes that it didn't click as a whole film.

I'll admit, the movie wasn't perfect and it did seem like the film was a tad disjointed, but calling it horribly inconsistent is not accurate. It had a beginning a middle and an end. I had no trouble following the events that conspired throughout.

 

[Kai Lord]

And as for the plane rescue, that is easy. Makes one quick teleport outside the plane, looks down, sees Rogue, teleports to her then back to the plane.

I considered mentioning that, but to me it kind of felt like cheating since the editing so strongly implies that he made one 'port to reach her. Of course, if you wanted to get really picky you could wonder whether or not Nightcrawler and Rogue should have been pancaked by the back of the seat hitting them at 700 mph when they teleported back into the plane....

I'll admit, the movie wasn't perfect and it did seem like the film was a tad disjointed, but calling it horribly inconsistent is not accurate. It had a beginning a middle and an end. I had no trouble following the events that conspired throughout.

A criticism I have for the movie itself is that it does feel more like a collection of awesome scenes rather than a satisfying story arc. Even though its based on a comic book and the episodic nature thereof, I do think its important to stay true to the medium of film; developing and resolving things in a satisfying manner (as with the original Superman and Spider-Man, heck even Daredevil managed this where X2 did not). In this regard, X1 was the superior film, X2 was just a hell of a lot more fun.

Interestingly enough, X2 felt more like a story out of a role-playing adventure than a movie.

 

[John Crichton]

I considered mentioning that, but to me it kind of felt like cheating since the editing so strongly implies that he made one 'port to reach her. Of course, if you wanted to get really picky you could wonder whether or not Nightcrawler and Rogue should have been pancaked by the back of the seat hitting them at 700 mph when they teleported back into the plane....

It is a bit of a stretch as I thought the same thing. I guess my point was that he didn't really have to guess as to where Rogue was, he could have seen her from the air. Not as difficult or risky as teleporting to a place he's never seen.

A criticism I have for the movie itself is that it does feel more like a collection of awesome scenes rather than a satisfying story arc. Even though its based on a comic book and the episodic nature thereof, I do think its important to stay true to the medium of film; developing and resolving things in a satisfying manner (as with the original Superman and Spider-Man, heck even Daredevil managed this where X2 did not). In this regard, X1 was the superior film, X2 was just a hell of a lot more fun.

The overall scenes do feel a bit disjointed which means that they probably had some editing issues. It was reported that they did a decent amount of cutting to get it to a PG-13 rating. But even though the scenes were a bit off from each other, they still made for an entertaining film. Plus, I never felt that the narrative suffered because of it. I always felt like I could follow the story with no hitches.

 

[WizarDru]

3) The whole break-in to the base. They had Magneto with them, and then they launch this complicated plan to attack a base mostly made out of metal.

I'll cheerfully concede that.

Did Magneto learn to breathe underwater sometime during his incarceration? They make it pretty clear that anyone who wanders into the tunnel is getting a face full of dam runoff...they almost do it to 'Logan' until they realize who it is. Let's not confuse comic Magneto's range of abilities with movie Magneto's. He can't fly, and doesn't generate a magnetic 'force-bubble' to protect himself. Bullets? Not a problem. Hundreds of tons of water? Big Problem. Never mind the fact that the first movie reasonably establishes that movie Magneto is a hypocritical coward....he's not willing to die for the cause, but he'll martyr a little girl for it.


As for Wolverine not being able to tell the difference between Mystique and Jean, two ideas come to mind. One, it's a non-combat situation, and an already rattled and exhausted Logan is taken by suprise by his most extreme fantasy come to life. He's just too damned confused to realize. He's not infallible, after all. Two, Mystique may just have learned how to mask or change her scent to match, now that she nows some people can tell. Remember, this is the same person who can get fingerprints from handshake a day earlier, and can mimic voices perfectly. It would have been nice to have a line of dialogue to reveal that, but c'est la vie.

 

[Kai Lord]

It is a bit of a stretch as I thought the same thing. I guess my point was that he didn't really have to guess as to where Rogue was, he could have seen her from the air. Not as difficult or risky as teleporting to a place he's never seen.
The overall scenes do feel a bit disjointed which means that they probably had some editing issues. It was reported that they did a decent amount of cutting to get it to a PG-13 rating. But even though the scenes were a bit off from each other, they still made for an entertaining film. Plus, I never felt that the narrative suffered because of it. I always felt like I could follow the story with no hitches.

I didn't have any problems following the story either, it was just that I found a number of the mini-stories to be more engaging than the overall story. Mainly this just comes from slightly botched resolutions to the main story threads, IMO.

Logan's last interaction with a chained up Stryker was ho-hum, Jean's sacrifice missed the mark mainly because of how the reactions of Cyclops and Logan were directed, and the whole "X-Men appear in the Oval Office to give the Pres some friendly words of advice" wrap-up was way too tidy and even a bit silly.

This was a film where the journey of the characters was much more compelling than the destination, and that's too bad, because it would have been nice to see Singer knock this one out of the park.

EDIT: I also think the X-Men are at their best without a Gandalf-figure leading them around by the nose. I loved the dynamic at the climax of X1 when Cyclops was in charge and trying to keep Wolverine in line.

X2 once again incapacitated Professor X to somewhat facilitate this, but then replaced him with Magneto! I loved the idea of the X-Men teaming up with former enemies, but they deferred to his leadership way too easily, and became borderline lackeys.

All that was left for them to do was fight their respective showdowns. Well, not totally, but the characters didn't come into their own the way I would have liked, or like they did in the first film.

Sweet, sweet flick, the few disappointing directorial decisions just came at some pretty pivotal moments.

 

[John Crichton]

Logan's last interaction with a chained up Stryker was ho-hum, Jean's sacrifice missed the mark mainly because of how the reactions of Cyclops and Logan were directed, and the whole "X-Men appear in the Oval Office to give the Pres some friendly words of advice" wrap-up was way too tidy and even a bit silly.

The wrap-up was a little off, but I didn't have any issues with it. I didn't mind the words so much as that they had evidence to give the President (that he could verify) as to what has been going on. I actually liked Logan's reaction to her death. Scott's was a tad odd only because of his proximity to Xavier at the time (the giggles from the crowd didn't help). But his pain worked for me, especially considering I couldn't see his eyes.

I am looking forward to seeing it again, either on DVD or in the theater because usually upon the second viewing I am able to be more critical. The first time I see a film, I tend to let my critical side stay home so I can fully enjoy the $10 I just spent.

This was a film where the journey of the characters was much more compelling than the destination, and that's too bad, because it would have been nice to see Singer knock this one out of the park.

If he had knocked it out of the park, this would have been a better movie than Superman. As it stands, they have themselves set up to make at least one more excellent sequel. I would like to see more than that but it will be hard to keep the cast together. I guess if they can keep the key players interested (Jackman, Stewart, McKellen) other actors could pick up the roles in the future...

 

[Kai Lord]

John, check out the edit/update I made to my last post. I'm curious as to whether or not you agree.

I am looking forward to seeing it again, either on DVD or in the theater because usually upon the second viewing I am able to be more critical. The first time I see a film, I tend to let my critical side stay home so I can fully enjoy the $10 I just spent.

The reason I am a bit critical of certain things is because for the most part the build up was so well done that it called attention to the less than spectacular resolution. I had an enormous amount of fun, but I couldn't help but feel a little bit teased when all was said and done.

Someone commented that the hole in the Blackbird summed up the film for him, for me it would be Collosus' cameo. Awesome, but give me more...

If he had knocked it out of the park, this would have been a better movie than Superman. As it stands, they have themselves set up to make at least one more excellent sequel. I would like to see more than that but it will be hard to keep the cast together. I guess if they can keep the key players interested (Jackman, Stewart, McKellen) other actors could pick up the roles in the future...

If they wrap this whole thing up Return of the King style with one and only one more film, then a lot of my criticisms of X2 will be pacified. If they try to make the next one just a teaser for X4 I'll be very disappointed.

 

[DonAdam]

I will concede one thing:

I had forgotten that Jean had screwed up the electronics at the beginning, so it makes sense that she left the plane if that was the reason. That would even explain the missile scene, as she was not surrounded by lots of people with telepathic overload then.

As far as disjointed, I wasn't speaking about the overall plot. Maybe I'm used to the comics, but a string of tangentially related elements works fine for me as the plot, especially as the middle part of a trilogy. I was talking about the characters' personalities and the way they used their powers.

I can almost see the point about Nightcrawler not wanting to teleport into the base, but when he was scared to go into the cerebro room it was ridiculous. Half the people there could have told him what it looked like. It was clearly nothing more than a setup for the silly Storm line, which was a total and unexplained switch from what the characters had said earlier.
In fact, I will conced all points about Nightcrawler EXCEPT the door scene. It was just beyond stupid.

I don't have a problem with Magneto showing personality, just with him showing the personality of a 13 year old girl. As I said, his interaction with Pyro was brilliant. Also, how did he know that the Ellis Island incident caused her hair to change? He was unconscious.

As far as Magneto entering the base, I realize that he doesn't do electromagnetic fields like in the comics, but if he can escape from a super bad cell the way he did the thugs in there would have stood no chance.
The water question is irrelevant: huge portions of that base were made out of metal.

Given those observations, I'll raise my review to a 2.5 or 3/5, with the worst things either making sense now (Jean) or being too short to really matter (Magneto acting like an anime schoolgirl [without the unfunny sex humor]).

 

[Wormwood]

Did Magneto learn to breathe underwater sometime during his incarceration? They make it pretty clear that anyone who wanders into the tunnel is getting a face full of dam runoff...they almost do it to 'Logan' until they realize who it is. Let's not confuse comic Magneto's range of abilities with movie Magneto's. He can't fly, and doesn't generate a magnetic 'force-bubble' to protect himself. Bullets? Not a problem. Hundreds of tons of water? Big Problem.

Notice I said that Magneto *and* Mystique could have taken out the whole base by themselves. Their actions in the film prove that to be true.

Mystique *alone* manages to get in and turn off the water. In my opinion, the subsequent actions of the X-Men were superfluous at best---and could easily have been handled by Magneto and Mystie.

Magneto proved that he could dispatch the guards and bust in *and out* with only Mystiques help. Not using his comic book powers, just the ones he displayed in the base scenes.

ps. I *liked* the movie.