X2 *spoilers*

[WizarDru]

Actually he can fly. In the first film he flys towards the train he just ripped appart and then flys out of the head of the statue of liberty to the torch.

Good point, although I'd amend that to: movie Magneto can't fly in the same manner as comic Magneto...he can levitate. Remembering that comic Magneto can literally fly out of the stratsosphere to a base in low orbit, I think we can see that movie Magneto is a little lower in power (for very practical budgetary and story-telling reasons).

Originally posted by DonAdam
As far as Magneto entering the base, I realize that he doesn't do electromagnetic fields like in the comics, but if he can escape from a super bad cell the way he did the thugs in there would have stood no chance.
The water question is irrelevant: huge portions of that base were made out of metal.

But we're not talking ball bearings, here, or free standing cars: we're talking about tons of metal interworked with concrete. Going in by himself, Magneto would be flooded out and die. If Mystique went in first, and then only Magneto followed, he had no idea how well prepared they were to deal with him. Let's remember: Stryker built Magneto's prison. It's not hard to believe he might have had a way to deal with him. Cyclops would have been a pretty good defense, by himself. Plastic guns with rubber bullets are not that hard to envsion, and again we return to the fact that Magneto is, in his heart, something of a coward.

I was glad to see something more of the charisma that makes him a leader, though, in his scenes with Pyro. Mystique truly came into her own, this time out, which is good for RRS.

And dravot, DUDE, that was an RX-8! Only a madman would shoot at a car that good.

Edit:Corrected very-stupid cutting and pasting error on the 'quote' statement. Mea Culpa.

 

[Bagpuss]

Hey I didn't originally say that second bit!

 

[WizarDru]

Very sorry, I was cutting-and-pasting out of laziness, and didn't correct. Those responsible have been sacked.

It has been edited to be correct. Mea maxima culpa.

 

[jasper]

I can't wait for the director's cut (r rating anyone?)
My wife like where she hated the first one. I always like it when there is a good nod to the comics but don't worry if they hit all the spots.
They got most of characters right but I can see that extra dialoge and scenes were need for a couple of places. But I was only expecting a warm over X1.
Why would any one need to mention the brimstone effect? Does it add to the story? No. Is it needed? No. Why does teleporting have the smell anyway?
Big flaw here is Storm summons how many tornadoes? How many people did SHE KILL on the ground. Opps hero don't kill.
I see Striker is still hiring from Hench A lot. A dozen quality henchmen for not 29.99 but $12.
Thanks for the reminder of Banshee daughter.
For all of you complaining about the kids be replaced. Come on Kitty Pride was in how many scenes in the first movie. And how many real years vs movie time has pass for what is a minor character in the first movie.
For all of you complaining about teenagers in adult characters roles. Hmm has n't Marvel redone the ages. I saw a Spiderman which did have 15 year old Peter Parker. Is Marvel doing this with some of their grandma and grandpa character, FF4, Hulk, Spidey? Come on there sticking with comic and writing a good POPCORN movie.
After Jean Gray was jean, Phoniex, Dead, Jean again, And then a clone? Or am I thinking of Gwen Stacy/ peter parker clones?

Loved the line from mom about not being a mutant.
B + .

 

[WizarDru]

After Jean Gray was jean, Phoniex, Dead, Jean again, And then a clone? Or am I thinking of Gwen Stacy/ peter parker clones?

Hoo-boy.

In the comics, it ran a little like this:

Jean Grey joins X-men. Falls for Scott, unknowning that Scott falls for her. All four male X-men pine for her, Scott wins her love. New X-men arrive, and Logan falls for her, HARD. Triangle forms, but Scott wins again...after friction Logan and Scott become good friends and trusted teammates.

Now things get ugly.

Returning from a battle in space, the X-men are riding a space shuttle out of control, that is falling apart. Jean uses her telekinesis to protect the others, while piloting the shuttle down herself, being exposed to lethal radiation, and expecting to be killed. The shuttle crashes in Jamaica Bay, and everyone thinks that Jean has died...until a pheonix of fire erupts into the sky, and Jean reappears, alive.

Got that? Good, cuz then things get ugly, and then uglier.

After a stint in the circus (honest) the X-men are kidnaped by Magneto, and left in a base beneath a volcano in Antarctica. They escape, and are separated into two groups. Jean Grey and the Beast escape and are rescued, while the rest (presumed dead) find themselves in the Savage Land. Months pass, and the characters have a series of 'moonlighting' like near-misses. During this time, a mysterious man named 'Jason Wyngarde' (really Mastermind) begins messing with Jean's mind using a series of illusions. This is all a way to get Jean to join an organization of evil industrialist mutants called the Hellfire Club. Jean becomes Dark Pheonix, and while half-insane with a need for power, destroys an entire solar system and inadvertantly kills billions of sentient beings. After the Hellfire club are defeated, the Shi'ar empire (don't ask if you don't know) demands retribution. The X-men fight a steadily losing battle to protect Jean, who allows herself to be killed to spare her friends from death on her behalf.

OK. So far, so good. Then Claremont mucked it up.

First comes Madelyn Pryor, a woman who appears to be Jean's exact twin. Scott meets her while on sabbatical (following jean's death) and falls in love with her. They eventually marry and have a baby. Madelyn, however, is a clone of Jean produced by a fellow named Mr. Sinister. No, really. He's apparently trying to manipulate blood-lines to do...um, something. It's never really made clear what his point is.

But don't worry, Jean isn't really dead. Turns out it was an alien the whole time. No, Really. Hence, X-factor is born. Scott drops Maddy like an old hat, and goes back to Jean. Hilarity ensues.

It goes on, but I think you get the idea. Eventually, Jean and Scott marry. And in an alternate future, they have kids, who all seem doomed to come back into the past and muck about. Oh, how convuluted it gets.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Although I'll freely blame Claremont for a lot, there's more than enough blame to go around for the messy continuity of Jean Grey.

Claremont had never intended for Jean to die, after she became the Dark Phoenix. Claremont's plan was for Jean to lose her powers. Jim Shooter, editor of the X-Men, decided that wasn't enough, and that Jean had to die as punishment. Seems he was still caught in a black-and-white Golden Age moral paradigm, where good and evil are clear as day. (Okay, maybe he wasn't quite that bad; after all, Wolverine was a psycho killer back then.)

So Claremont simply moved forward. Scott married Madelyne, and they had a daughter, Rachel Summers. Rachel was one of the first (I think) super-heroes to be the teen-ager from the future, because Marvel can't seem to stand having children around (baby or teen-ager, no in-betweens). We see this also happen to Franklin Richards and other super-heroes (Trunks of DBZ, but he's not Marvel, and Cable, but he's an old geezer). All that was fine, though.

X-Factor then comes along, and they decide they want Jean Grey back. This eventually leads to screwing up Madelyne and Rachel, who were both alright characters, but essentially unnecessary with Jean around. I'm not sure who gets the blame for that one; I recall Louise Simonson was one of the earliest writers of X-Factor, but I don't know if she was the one who decided that Jean would return.

Like many ugly continuity glares in comics, this has to do with making a big change, to keep readers interested or try to attract new ones, and then later going back and trying to erase that big change.

 

[Umbran]

Marvel can't seem to stand having children around (baby or teen-ager, no in-betweens). We see this also happen to Franklin Richards and other super-heroes (Trunks of DBZ, but he's not Marvel, and Cable, but he's an old geezer). All that was fine, though.

Well, that's partly because it is difficult to do well. They have tried, though - anyone ever read Power Pack?

A baby is, effectively, an object to which characters are emotionally tied, and that's easy to deal with. A teenager has mentation that the authors and readers can grasp easily and use and understand.

Kids are a little different. Aside from the fact that the life that superhero parents lead would be called child abuse by any sane court, there's the simple fact that there's a fine line from having a kid be too dumb to be interesting (or even survivable), and too smart to be plausible. Walking that line is a pain in the neck, and it's just simpler to avoid it, and perhaps better to avoid it than to try it and repeatedly fail.

 

[Aaron2]

No from me

I liked the first movie but didn't really like this one. Sure, all the cameos and stuff was cool but I found it lacking in the plot hole and action department. Except the Wolverine V Deathstrike and the brief Cyclops V Marvel Girl, the rest of the action was little more than mutants slaughtering humans. The assault on the school was a prime example. The human strike force posed no threat to the mutants. Asside from some lame darts, they had no special anti-mutant equipment. No flash grenades, no gas, no nightvision. Nothing except lame facepaint. Once the kids were safe in the basement, Colussus and Wolverine could have easily dispatched them. It would have been worse if Storm and Marvel Girl were still around. Didn't Magneto tell them what mutants to expect? In short, there was no real sense of danger. It just showed a lack of creativity.

Another, as yet unmentioned plot hole was that whole scout camp scene. The X-men just downed two F-16s. Were are the search and rescue, where are the FCC and special forces guys investigating the crash site? Nowhere. I agree with the previous assessment that the movie was alot of good scenes poorly connected together along with the most boring dam crash sequence ever. It had to have taken 45 minutes for that dam to break. So much for tension.


Aaron

 

[Viking Bastard]

Scott married Madelyne, and they had a daughter, Rachel Summers.

Wait, isn't Rachel Jean's daughter and Cable Madelyn's?

Man, X-Men continuity is just the most confusing evah!

Oh and you all forgot the part where Madelyn goes all nuts and evil.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Wait, isn't Rachel Jean's daughter and Cable Madelyn's?

Man, X-Men continuity is just the most confusing evah!

Oh and you all forgot the part where Madelyn goes all nuts and evil.

Whoops! Yup, Rachel is Jean's daughter.

Yeah, we left out the crazy part, but we also left out tons of other parts (like when Madelyne gains healing powers). When she went evil, she became the Goblyn Queen, and I think she hooked up with Scott's brother for a while...

[sarcasm] Anyway, as a comics fan, I'm shocked and insulted that the movie guys went and dropped years of continuity instead of telling the whole Phoenix thing exactly as it was in the comics. [/sarcasm]