D&D 5E Xanathar's Healing Spirit is 10d6 healing to the whole party out of combat?

[FrogReaver]

No one denies that it's the best out of combat healing spell in the game. It's strong. I assume the spell when cast at its highest level slot can fully heal any conscious character. (Not always the case but often enough so)

So does being able to fully restore the parties hp 2-4 times per day in exchange for all your highest spell slots really a problem?

Consider the amount of damage mitigation a highest level conjure animals can cause between enemies hitting the summons and the summons killing enemies faster.

Consider a wizard with hypnotic pattern and fireball basically ending certain fights and types of fights on his own.

In the grand scheme of things these other spells probably do much more for the party survivability than the druids out of combat healing spirit. It's a perspective thing.

 

[5ekyu]

No one denies that it's the best out of combat healing spell in the game. It's strong. I assume the spell when cast at its highest level slot can fully heal any conscious character. (Not always the case but often enough so)

So does being able to fully restore the parties hp 2-4 times per day in exchange for all your highest spell slots really a problem?

Consider the amount of damage mitigation a highest level conjure animals can cause between enemies hitting the summons and the summons killing enemies faster.

Consider a wizard with hypnotic pattern and fireball basically ending certain fights and types of fights on his own.

In the grand scheme of things these other spells probably do much more for the party survivability than the druids out of combat healing spirit. It's a perspective thing.

Well, of course and its also a presumptions thing - like i said a LOT depends on whther ot not the Gm uses the multiple encounters accumulation in his game. A game where most "runs" are one fight with maybe a slight bit of non-consequential skirmish, followed by long rests is not going to see "between combat healing" 9or between combat refresh" or any other "short rest" and long rest" balancing factors) in play at all. that kind of game likely sees quite a few skews from the normal balance between classes and likely one of those will be the warlock (who sees his "short rest recovery short list of few slots" almost always going up against other spellcasters "long rest recovery long list or more slots")

But, to your point, you may be underestimating the impact for Gms who do use multi-encounters resource wear down (the "standard model" if you will) those other spells like hypnotic pattern were already in play and already played their role at lessening damage and so forth and the encounter levels and threats were built with those in play and then AFTER the skirmish or fight this spell wipes out the expected accumulated "wear down" in a way that is more powerful than its rivals, more efficient than its rivals (in terms of time needed and vulnerability) so much that it really does seriously disrupt that play mode and encounter structure while making it the singularly "best" choice.

This spell as written would require me as Gm to significantly alter not just a few things but a fairly major amount of campaign structural elements - and that is not changes in ways that i feel adds more fun to my games.

EDIT to be clear its not ANY character but EVERY character and really depending on your POV it could be also "one" unconscious character if the spell was centered on its hex and it got the start of turn hits though there may be rules about unconscious and turns that i am not considering.)

 

[5ekyu]

hahahaha. Bad guys with Int 10+ walk thru the square too!

yes if it is used in combat AND the player who cast it gives the nod... the caster can choose as a creature enters to have the sprirt heal or not.

 

[Bacon Bits]

hahahaha. Bad guys with Int 10+ walk thru the square too!

They can, but Healing Spirit says, "you can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature[.]" Each instance of healing is optional on the part of the caster.

 

[Bardbarian]

Well this is one where its utility (at least out of combat) is quite clear. People have already noted some very easy methods to milk out the greatest possible out of combat healing. Comparing that to prayer of healing, its clearly the strongest out of combat healing spell that has been allowed to date. Again, whether that is OP or working as intended is up to you, but its very clear how strong the healing the is.

I'm not saying the spell isn't effective. I am asking if you have ever seen it actually used, and if so do you feel it was unbalanced when actually seen in play. Theory and actual play are very different.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, of course and its also a presumptions thing - like i said a LOT depends on whther ot not the Gm uses the multiple encounters accumulation in his game. A game where most "runs" are one fight with maybe a slight bit of non-consequential skirmish, followed by long rests is not going to see "between combat healing" 9or between combat refresh" or any other "short rest" and long rest" balancing factors) in play at all. that kind of game likely sees quite a few skews from the normal balance between classes and likely one of those will be the warlock (who sees his "short rest recovery short list of few slots" almost always going up against other spellcasters "long rest recovery long list or more slots")

But, to your point, you may be underestimating the impact for Gms who do use multi-encounters resource wear down (the "standard model" if you will) those other spells like hypnotic pattern were already in play and already played their role at lessening damage and so forth and the encounter levels and threats were built with those in play and then AFTER the skirmish or fight this spell wipes out the expected accumulated "wear down" in a way that is more powerful than its rivals, more efficient than its rivals (in terms of time needed and vulnerability) so much that it really does seriously disrupt that play mode and encounter structure while making it the singularly "best" choice.

This spell as written would require me as Gm to significantly alter not just a few things but a fairly major amount of campaign structural elements - and that is not changes in ways that i feel adds more fun to my games.

EDIT to be clear its not ANY character but EVERY character and really depending on your POV it could be also "one" unconscious character if the spell was centered on its hex and it got the start of turn hits though there may be rules about unconscious and turns that i am not considering.)

I understand. All I'm saying is consider what a healing spell should look like that is comparable in impact to fireball and hypnotic pattern and conjure animals.

I think healing spirit gets close to what that should look like. What do you think such a healing spell should look like?

 

[CapnZapp]

No one denies that it's the best out of combat healing spell in the game. It's strong.

Consider a wizard with hypnotic pattern and fireball basically ending certain fights and types of fights on his own.

Please don't relativize. Please don't bring up analogies that are incomparable.

Your post is only muddying the waters.



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[CapnZapp]

I understand. All I'm saying is consider what a healing spell should look like that is comparable in impact to fireball and hypnotic pattern and conjure animals.

Why?

I think healing spirit gets close to what that should look like. What do you think such a healing spell should look like?

Why should there be a "healing fireball"?



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[FrogReaver]

Please don't relativize. Please don't bring up analogies that are incomparable.

Your post is only muddying the waters.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Why? Is it maybe because that doesn't suit the case you are trying to make?

It's just as fair to compare "impact" as it is to compare amount healed.

 

[FrogReaver]

Why?


Why should there be a "healing fireball"?

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I didn't say there should or shouldn't be. I said healing spirit gets awful close to the kind of game impact fireball and hypnotic pattern have IMO. It's hard to call something overpowered and lobby for its removal solely based on its strength when it doesn't impact the game anymore than spells already in the game.