XP For Defeating a Creature Twice

[Olaf the Stout]

The problem is that he knows what they are capable of, and that tends to be much more devastating (at least in the campaigns I have run.) I'm assuming you have advanced him a level as well. Better yet, advance him two levels so he is 3 while they are 2. They waltz in expecting to crush him, and quickly find that they are sorely pressed . . .

I expect that in my particular situation the players will encounter him again in the next couple of day, rather than weeks or months down the track. Advancing him a level or two won't be realistic. Added to that, the baddie is already an EL4 encounter. Adding another level would make him an EL5 encounter, which I think is a little too difficult for 5 1st level PC's. Giving him some extra equipment (as Zoatebix suggested) for the second fight is certainly something that I could do though.

Olaf the Stout

 

[moritheil]

But they know what he's capable of as well so it's a moot point.

No, it's really not. The PCs have limited opportunities regarding what they can or cannot obtain. The NPCs have DM fiat. In short, the NPCs have more options and vastly improved ability to take advantage of such knowledge.

Furthermore, let us suppose it "equals out" in a sense and both sides are annihilated. Is this an even result? No, it is not. The players will feel like the NPC has "won" even though he is just as dead as they are.

Perhaps in your campaign this is not so; I am merely pointing out that this is how it goes in most campaigns.

 

[moritheil]

I expect that in my particular situation the players will encounter him again in the next couple of day, rather than weeks or months down the track. Advancing him a level or two won't be realistic. Added to that, the baddie is already an EL4 encounter. Adding another level would make him an EL5 encounter, which I think is a little too difficult for 5 1st level PC's. Giving him some extra equipment (as Zoatebix suggested) for the second fight is certainly something that I could do though.

Olaf the Stout

I was thinking more along the lines of, "So we meet again, Mr. Bond!"

A day or two is not enough time for him to tailor anything strictly against the PCs except a spell list (or new gear, I suppose.) I can understand reduced XP in that situation.

 

[shilsen]

This is probably a more radical (and less helpful) suggestion than you want, but have you considered not awarding XP for combat? A few years ago, I started awarding flat amounts of XP per session in my games so as to keep PCs advancing at a speed I'm comfortable with, rather than doing so based on any formula or anything done in game. There are a lot of advantages to the system and I'll never do XP any other way, and one of the big advantages is that you never have to worry about questions like the one you're faced with.

 

[moritheil]

This is probably a more radical (and less helpful) suggestion than you want, but have you considered not awarding XP for combat? A few years ago, I started awarding flat amounts of XP per session in my games so as to keep PCs advancing at a speed I'm comfortable with, rather than doing so based on any formula or anything done in game. There are a lot of advantages to the system and I'll never do XP any other way, and one of the big advantages is that you never have to worry about questions like the one you're faced with.

True; that approach is behind considerable amounts of metagaming (players who want to get into one more encounter to level up; players who don't want to sneak by because they fear getting less XP, etc.) When I ran In Nomine we had a mission objective-related XP system which was very helpful in eliminating that kind of mindset.

 

[azhrei_fje]

It all depends on the personality and intelligence of the bad guy.

If he's smart, he'll regroup and not meet the PCs again until he's ready. That might be a single day in game-time or it may be weeks or months. He might use some of his cash (gp, gems, whatever) to obtain potions of cure serious or haste or something else (keeping his overall gp value the same, but swapping out some gear for stuff he can use immediately). Expect him to spend about as much time doing this as the party would spend, depending on what kind of contacts he has.

He may try to lead the party into a trap by discretely making it known that he'll be at a certain place at a certain time, and then putting a minion there instead so that he can watch what's going on from afar. Or he might try to frame the party. Perhaps a minion has stolen something from a powerful noble. The bad guy may find a way to plant it on the party and dial 911 during a battle so that the local law enforcement find the object nestled in a backpack belonging to a party member.

In any case, I would award full (or almost full) XP for going up against the bad guy a second time. As someone else has said, the XP is for overcoming a challenge. Overcoming a trap (which is static in design) deserves XP only a single time, but overcoming a dynamic individual deserves XP each time. It should also be balanced against the amount of resources consumed b the party. The DMG assumes that for a difficult encounter, the party may consume up to 20%-25% of their resources (meaning prepared spells as well as healing potions, charges from wands, etc). Factor this in as well.

 

[Zoatebix]

Ooh, why didn't I think to say that, too. Good advice Shilsen!

 

[Blackrat]

This is probably a more radical (and less helpful) suggestion than you want, but have you considered not awarding XP for combat? A few years ago, I started awarding flat amounts of XP per session in my games so as to keep PCs advancing at a speed I'm comfortable with, rather than doing so based on any formula or anything done in game. There are a lot of advantages to the system and I'll never do XP any other way, and one of the big advantages is that you never have to worry about questions like the one you're faced with.

Another vote to seriously consider this. I used this kind of system with my group for years. Now that I have new group I reverted to playing by RAW before I get to know their play-style better. Later I plan to introduce them to my "house-rule booklet", but that can wait until we decide wether to switch to 4e or not.

 

[squee]

But they know what he's capable of as well so it's a moot point.

It's not really the Issue you both raised is the crux of the issue both the PCs and the baddie think they know what is coming and prepare for the opponent they faced in the previous encounter, however because both change this is not the opponent they face in the new encounter so this encounter is neither harder because the baddie has had time to prepare nor easier because the PCs have.

 

[Jhaelen]

I was thinking of awarding less XP for the second time around since they now know what they're up against. The PC's are currently 1st level. They may be 2nd level before they face him again but I don't expect anything else will really change.

The thing is: their enemy, too, knows what to expect!
IMC, if an adversary is clearly defeated but gets away the party gets full xp. If they encounter him again at some later point and he is fully rested, they get full xp again - it's an altogether different encounter!

Generally, the second encounter is a lot tougher, he'll be prepared for any tactics the pcs used in their first encounter and he will have made sure they won't work again. He knows he's been defeated by them and he won't be keen to repeat the experience.