XP Question

[plunoir101]

So my players faced off against the Greater Cranium Rat Swarm during Expedition to the Demonweb pits.

The rats wanted to make sure the PC's wouldn't trust angels and demons and they asked that of them. Everyone in the party, one by one, said they would take the free advice and move along... until the NPC paladin's turn.
"Demons can never be trusted yes, but angels deserve our trust" he said.
Groans erupted around the table as I said to roll initiative.
Over the next two turns the cleric was bleeding out and the rest of the party was stunned by a mind blast... all save the coward guide they had hired.
So the rats demanded that we not trust angels and demons again... the only one who could respond was the coward so he pretty much said that he would never trust anyone ever again.
The rats backed off the stunned party and filtered out into the sewer entrance.
Morgan (the coward), performing untrained Heal Check, eventually stopped the bleeding on the cleric when he was at -8 and saved the day.

My question is:
Should I reward the party full XP for overcoming the encounter (they DID choose to hire the coward) and not fleeing, or should the XP be decreased because they didn't "kill" the rats.

Another example: Later that week the party was confronted by two Hound Archons on the charge of consorting with demons. The book gives me the entire encounter as if they fought them... but they were able to do things diplomatically, while staying in good standing, by surrendering themselves to questioning.

Once again, they overcame the encounter but didn't "defeat" the monsters in question.

Sorry about running on about this but I really don't want to penalize my players for not being all "hack-n-slash". I really enjoy watching them trying to talk there way out of these things.

Thanx in advance.

 

[Jimlock]

XP for battle only = hack 'n' slash/videogame.

XP for everything (at least equally) = RPG.

 

[the Jester]

They didn't overcome the cranium rats by any measure I'd use. No xp for getting your butt kicked.

The archons, on the other hand, I'd award full xp for.

 

[GunbladeKnight]

They didn't overcome the cranium rats by any measure I'd use. No xp for getting your butt kicked.

I think the paladin deserves a small bonus to his XP. He took the unfavorable route based on his alignment and code of conduct (to the bane of the rest of the party). And since they survived, perhaps the group gains half or quarter xp from it?

As for the other, they overcame the challenge.

 

[plunoir101]

Thanks for the quick responses guys.
[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION]: i do like your relation to hackn'slash and rpgs and i do agree on that.
[MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION]: You are right about the rats. It was the party's decision to walk around Sigil while below half health and they DID get whooped pretty bad. I still want to give them something for the encounter however because it was their idea to have the coward speak up. Eh, maybe im just too nice.

You make a good point on the archons though. It was a clever tongue that netted them XP instead of swords.

 

[HoboGod]

When you're the DM, you reward XP based upon what direction you want the game to go. If the encounter was awesome, reward full XP and bonus XP. If you felt good about the encounter, give full XP. If you felt things were handled poorly, reward partial XP. If you felt the encounter was a total trainwreck, reward nothing. If my group insists they want to win encounters by using overdeveloped diplomacy checks, I don't give them ANYTHING. No XP, no treasure, and a bad ending to their current quest. I'm not hosting an RPing group, this is Dungeons and Dragons and the time you took to build a character reflects a dedication to combat game mechanics. If you want to throw out the combat, let's throw out the character sheets altogether.

 

[Herzog]

I think the question should be: who was running the NPC Paladin?

It sounds like you (the DM) started the encounter (while the PC's were taking the 'smart' route) and you (the DM) ended the encounter with the NPC guide when all the PC´s were no longer able to answer the questions.

if both NPC´s were played by players, I would give normal XP for the encounter (they did survive, even if it was through sheer luck). If they should meet the rats a second time, no additional XP would be given for that encounter.

the second encounter is different. XP is given for overcoming challanges. If this is done through diplomacy, the XP is just as much earned.

[MENTION=90920]HoboGod[/MENTION] The diplomacy skill is just as much a part of the character sheet as the attack bonus is. Why would you against the use that specific part of the character.

 

[Hassassin]

In my games avoiding an encounter gets full XP. Simply surviving after combat has commenced also usually gives full XP, unless a deus ex machina of some kind was employed.

It's similar for traps - you get the XP regardless of if the rogue disarms it, the wizards flies everyone over it or the paladin steps on it.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Not all encounters need to be binary - you either succeed completely or fail utterly. In particular, if players actions would and could have "overcome" the encounter without combat, but NON-PLAYER character actions - which by definition are totally outside their control - determined both that the encounter resulted in combat and how the encounter was ultimately ended then the players deserve some credit. You don't have to give them the whole smash, but they clearly deserve something.

Overcoming an encounter does not mean that the opponents have to be "defeated", and defeating an opponent for purposes of awarding xp still doesn't necessarily mean combat. Encounters can be overcome by players figuring out how to successfully avoid them. Opponents can be defeated by players figuring out how to outsmart them instead of bashing their heads.

 

[plunoir101]

Wow, so many brilliant answers.
[MENTION=25696]Herzog[/MENTION]: The NPC Paladin was being played by a player (if he tries something out of alignment i remind him). The guide was being played by me.
--I feel as though the players deserve something for surviving the encounter as it was the paladin's choice to be steadfast with his alignment. I have decided to award only half XP because an NPC had to bail them out of certain doom. For the second encounter, I'm awarding full XP for overcoming the encounter.

[MENTION=90920]HoboGod[/MENTION]: I do agree with the idea of awarding the party in different ways for different encounters and if my players started Diplomacy checking their way through the campaign i would start cutting XP.

[MENTION=6675228]Hassassin[/MENTION]: You know, I hadn't thought of that about traps. I guess surviving a trap and continuing along the way is still overcoming the challenge set forth from the trap.

[MENTION=32740]Man in the Funny Hat[/MENTION]: I totally agree with you on this.

Thanks everyone for you're responses but alas... another XP question.

==How do you award XP for encounters in your game?==
Say the party is fighting two CR8 monsters. The ECL should be around 10 for this (i think). Do you award them for two CR8's or 1 CR10?