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D&D 5E Yay, magic items!

Li Shenron

Legend
What are your first feelings about the magic items rule in today's package?

Overall I like pretty everything I read:

I like the fluffy but not overboard descriptions.
I like (A LOT) the optional random tables for adding minor effects and details.
I like the simple but sometimes open-ended mechanics.
I like the warning guidelines on buying and selling magic items, and price vagueness.
I like the recharge rules (although the rates could be slower).
I like the negative sides or some items, the cursed items, and the optional potion/scrolls mishaps rules.

Some room for improvement, for my tastes:

- Enhancement bonuses could be less common (about 2 every 3 weapons still have them, and more if you count the "mobile" bonuses).

- Also, I'd like more items to have situational / circumstance-based effects.

Things I'm still undecided about:

- Attunement rules, this is a GREAT concept, but the execution is currently not so interesting

- More freedom in "item slots", sounds OK but open to player's abuse in a magic-heavy campaign

What do you think? :)
 
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RSKennan

Explorer
I love the idea of finally being able to wear 10 rings. I'm very happy with the packet.

Edit: I also like that the items aren't limited to what's purely useful in combat. I get a feel that these items exist in the context of the setting, and not just as modifers to combat. Very nice.
 

GX.Sigma

Adventurer
I love the approach that you can wear whatever makes sense (Mr. T style 10 rings and a million necklaces, but only one pair of boots), while limiting the number of really important items you can have at once.

I do agree that attunement could be implemented a bit better. Mike Mearls mentioned on Twitter that his favorite thing about attunement is that you can have a sword that gets better after you use it to kill 5 dragons. That sounds cool. I wish something like that was implemented, because right now attunement is just a 10-minute cooldown on switching out items.

Also, yee potion miscibility and bag of holding+portable hole shenanigans!
 

Libramarian

Adventurer
I like pretty much everything about the magic items. The potion miscibility table rules. I also don't mind attunement at all and I think it has potential to be really interesting from a story perspective.

Two things I don't like:
a) placing magic items based on the relative difficulty of the encounter,
and
b) the Vorpal Sword. You have a 0.25% chance that the sword does what it's supposed to do, and on top of that there's an HP limit. Maybe it will actually decapitate someone once in an entire campaign. That's pretty weaksauce. The 1e Vorpal Sword has a 20%(!) chance to decapitate.

I mean it says right there that it's a Legendary sword. The DM has total control over whether the PCs have a chance to get their hands on it. It's OK if it prematurely ends a couple encounters. Jeez.

I also dislike how if the monster doesn't have a head it just cuts them in half. I like that the form of the monster matters to whether the Vorpal Sword works well or not.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
b) the Vorpal Sword. You have a 0.25% chance that the sword does what it's supposed to do, and on top of that there's an HP limit. Maybe it will actually decapitate someone once in an entire campaign. That's pretty weaksauce. The 1e Vorpal Sword has a 20%(!) chance to decapitate.

The % is pretty low, but I think the thrill is still there: I can imagine how every time you roll a 20, everyone gathers around in trepidation to check the next roll.

The main result of old vorpal sword having such high percentage of success lead simply to most groups banning them outright.

I also dislike how if the monster doesn't have a head it just cuts them in half. I like that the form of the monster matters to whether the Vorpal Sword works well or not.

Totally agree! I seriously disliked how at some point between 3.5 and 4e everybody wanted everything (e.g. sneak attack) to work on every monster.
 

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
What do you think? :)

I liked the same things you listed. Some other things I also liked:

- the "just use common sense" rule on how many items you can wear at a time.

- magic items prices are much more realistic than in past editions, where they could be hundreds of thousands, even millions of gp. The numbers should probably be adjusted a bit, 10,000 gp seems a bit low for an artifact, but it's a good start.

- I like the lower numerical bonuses. Even a +1 is precious now. A +2 is rare and coveted, and a +3 is legendary.

Some of the things that need improvement:

- Attunement is a good idea in theory, but they need to work on the implementation. Right now it's just a 10 minute cooldown on swapping items, and that just feels like a pointless nuisance. Also, I think more items should require attunement.

- They really need to make it so that bonuses from magic items do not stack with each other. You can get an AC in the mid to high 20s just with the items in the playtest packet since there's no general rule preventing magic armor, ioun stones, defender swords, etc. etc. etc. from stacking. Only the ring of protection specifically has this restriciton. It needs to be a general rule.

- Some items are just plain better than others. Compare, for example, the Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone (a legendary item) to a Ring of Regeneration (a very rare item). The ioun stone heals you a pitiful 1 hp per hour. The ring heals you 1d6 hp every 10 minutes (making it heal you on average 21 times faster than the ioun stone). Plus, the ring regenerates lost limbs. I realize the ring requires attunement, but so what? It's an entire rarity category lower. An attunement requirement doesn't justify one item being 20+ times as powerful as another.

- Items that boost stats, especially those that raise it to a set value rather than granting a bonus (allowing people to completely ignore low natural ability scores) need to DIAF.

- The secrets on some of the items, particularly the Ring of Feather Falling, seem to be there for no other reason than to give the DM license to suddenly kill off a PC. Not cool.

- Some items are overpowered (this is to be expected in a playtest). A good example is the Potion of Speed, which makes even the overpowered 3.0 haste spell look modest in comparison.
 
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Falling Icicle

Adventurer
b) the Vorpal Sword. You have a 0.25% chance that the sword does what it's supposed to do, and on top of that there's an HP limit. Maybe it will actually decapitate someone once in an entire campaign. That's pretty weaksauce. The 1e Vorpal Sword has a 20%(!) chance to decapitate.

I mean it says right there that it's a Legendary sword. The DM has total control over whether the PCs have a chance to get their hands on it. It's OK if it prematurely ends a couple encounters. Jeez.

I also dislike how if the monster doesn't have a head it just cuts them in half. I like that the form of the monster matters to whether the Vorpal Sword works well or not.

I think they should get rid of the second roll and have it just do +6d8 damage whenever you crit. A +3 sword that completely ignores slashing resistance and inflicts 6d8 extra damage on a crit is worthy of being a legendary weapon, IMO. To preserve the flavor, they can just add "if this damage is enough to kill the target, it is decapitated (or cut in half, if it has no head)."
 

Li Shenron

Legend
- Attunement is a good idea in theory, but they need to work on the implementation. Right now it's just a 10 minute cooldown on swapping items, and that just feels like a pointless nuisance. Also, I think more items should require attunement.

Agree completely. I suggested in the other thread about 1 day for attunement, and to replace the attunement ritual (sounds a bit too cliche to me) with just the idea that you have to use the item or at least wear it in order to attune, and that means you have to already "de-attune" or at least not use one of your other attuned items in the meantime.

But it depends on what are the purposes of attunement, which can be different... I think with 1 whole day required (coupled with the pre-emptive de-attuning with another item) I would achieve the purpose of making swapping those major items carry a cost: not a huge cost, just the fact that you cannot do it in the middle of a day, and for 24 hours you'll be limited to only those features that work regardless of attunement.

But again, your purpose might be totally different. What do you think?

- They really need to make it so that bonuses from magic items do not stack with each other. You can get an AC in the mid to high 20s just with the items in the playtest packet since there's no general rule preventing magic armor, ioun stones, defender swords, etc. etc. etc. from stacking. Only the ring of protection specifically has this restriciton. It needs to be a general rule.

I agree again. It would match with the bounded accuracy concept.

Perhaps a middle ground could be found in typed bonuses, but to keep bounded accuracy they would need to be very few types, maybe only deflection bonus to AC and natural armor bonus to AC? It might not even be needed tho.

- Some items are just plain better than others. Compare, for example, the Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone (a legendary item) to a Ring of Regeneration (a very rare item). The ioun stone heals you a pitiful 1 hp per hour. The ring heals you 1d6 hp every 10 minutes (making it heal you on average 21 times faster than the ioun stone). Plus, the ring regenerates lost limbs. I realize the ring requires attunement, but so what? It's an entire rarity category lower. An attunement requirement doesn't justify one item being 20+ times as powerful as another.

I don't see this as a problem if we are far from the "magic shopping" general approach to magic items of 3ed. In that edition, every item has a market price, and the system assumes your have magic equipment to match your level. This kind of made 3ed assume the default that the magic item list of DMG is a shopping list, and that a PC is entitled to find what he wants for sale, as long as he pays the GP price...

But the default approach of 5e is more like "whatever the adventure brings you". In this case, the ioun stone is totally useful for a DM who doesn't want rings of regeneration in the campaign! With the 3ed mindset, the ioun stone inferiority would need to be compensated with a lower price. With the 5ed mindset, ioun stones and rings of regeneration can be equally "good" tools for a campaign.

- Items that boost stats, especially those that raise it to a set value rather than granting a bonus (allowing people to completely ignore low natural ability scores) need to DIAF.

I am fine with those items, exactly because of the 5e mindset above. They're not a big deal if the default is that they are just tools in the hands of the DM and the players to shape a campaign.

- The secrets on some of the items, particularly the Ring of Feather Falling, seem to be there for no other reason than to give the DM license to suddenly kill off a PC. Not cool.

I don't think that's reason, but rather just spicing up the description and add a little thrill or unpredictability. Notice that it even says that only some rings have such property, i.e. the DM doesn't even need to say she is house-ruling RoFF, just let the players only find those without faults.

- Some items are overpowered (this is to be expected in a playtest). A good example is the Potion of Speed, which makes even the overpowered 3.0 haste spell look modest in comparison.

I love that potion. :D More usable in the game than Haste since it gives you 2 turns at different times instead of a double-sized turn. Only problem is the question whether you should count durations (of spells cast on you and spells you cast) normally or if you should speed them up too.

But once again, the problem is in the default mindset used in a campaign. If you let the PC buy (or brew) potions of speed at will, then it's not going to work. It will be overpowered as you say. The only way to keep it under check, would be to set an outrageous price.

To me the problem is viceversa, that after a few years of playing with the 3ed mindset, I got bored and pissed off by the idea, and most 3ed magic items are designed to be quite flat and boring because they're assumed to be used in that mindset. An item such as potion of speed is something I would definitely want in my campaign instead, but I'll just choose to use it as rarely as I feel necessary to keep it special and not overpowered. I mean, it's still overpowered but just for 1 minute, and if it kills the fun once, you won't see another for the rest of the campaign.
 

Libramarian

Adventurer
The % is pretty low, but I think the thrill is still there: I can imagine how every time you roll a 20, everyone gathers around in trepidation to check the next roll.

The main result of old vorpal sword having such high percentage of success lead simply to most groups banning them outright.
I could see banning it if the players could buy it. But when the DM has complete control over its appearance in the gameworld I don't get it. I mean the effect is quite simple and easy to predict.
I think they should get rid of the second roll and have it just do +6d8 damage whenever you crit. A +3 sword that completely ignores slashing resistance and inflicts 6d8 extra damage on a crit is worthy of being a legendary weapon, IMO. To preserve the flavor, they can just add "if this damage is enough to kill the target, it is decapitated (or cut in half, if it has no head)."
Doesn't preserve the flavor well enough, IMO.

How to upset grognards: use the same names and IP for stuff and pretend its the same when it works completely differently mechanically.
 

Yora

Legend
I think it's all very disappointing. I skimmed over it once, read the attunement rules, and decided I would just ignore those.
Though in my campaigns magic items are usually limited to healing potions, +1 weapons, and occasionally rings with energy resistance or something with a +2 bonus to ability scores. So this isn't really a problem of any kind.
 

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