(YB-META-RULES) Dark/Light

Wicht

Adventurer
I started jotting down notes and stuff tonight for the dark/light paths and thought I would run some of it by you guys and see what you thought.

1) Becoming a Dark/Light warrior requires the defeat of a fighter from across the spectrum. Ideally this could mean a white belt could jump straight into the path if they defeat they right foe.

2) Leaving the path of darkness or path of light will be an option at any time but will require the sacrifice of a full tier - in other words a Light warrior who wants to become honor must drop to the bottom of the honor teir below his - a blue belt will be forced to become a white belt but an orange belt can become a yellow belt.

3) Conversions are still going to be an option and if the conversion is successful the warrior wins 2 ranks instead of 1. If it is not successful they drop three ranks. Conversions will affect Yakuza's, sash and honor fighters, but not the dark and light warriors themselves. Conversions I think should take place on a round after the first in which the flags are neutral - remembering that dirty tricks do not cause round changes - and doing so will make the use of the conversion power tricky to say the least.

This is, of course all just brainstorming but I thought I would put it out there.
 

graydoom

Villager
Sounds good, but I would favor equality in ranks gained for a successful conversion and ranks lost for an unsuccessful conversion.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
graydoom said:
Sounds good, but I would favor equality in ranks gained for a successful conversion and ranks lost for an unsuccessful conversion.
Well it had already been mentioned in another thread the possibility of dark/light warriors losing 2 ranks anyway when they lost to the other spectrum, but being forced to fight these to advance tiers.

Its still in the brainstorming stage tonight so feel free to give alternative ideas - i like the idea though of each path advancing/falling just a little different.
 

Berandor

lunatic
Well, I for one likes how the undead converted... after they won the fight, another round of combat to draw over.
If you lost this round, you could make it that the fighter trying to convert would lose 2, so that he went out of the match with one net loss.
Additionally, if he succeded in conversting, he wouldn't gain another win.

Berandor
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
Wicht, please leave some player choice in the conversion rules. If the player of a character really doesn't want their character to be converted, then have them lose an amount of ranks equal to the tier of the fighter attempting to convert them, or something else like that. While some enjoy the challenge of playing a new role (like Berandor), other people put too much into their characters to have them changed around like that against their will. (See what a chair shot to the back of the head will do to ya? I've been repeating this paragraph to anyone that would listen every time this subject came up for some reason! :confused: ;) :D)
 

Zappo

Villager
I also think that a conversion should not be forced... give an option besides seppuku. Lose a bunch of ranks, for example.
Wicht said:
Conversions will affect Yakuza's, sash and honor fighters, but not the dark and light warriors themselves.
So, a dark warrior is "beyond saving", and a light warrior can never be corrupted?
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Well - I already have an idea for converting from yakuza or honor to sash and from sash to yakuza or honor. But how about this - A dark that switches to yakuza loses 1 tier, a yakuza that switches to honor loses 2 tiers, A honor that switches to Yakuza loses 2 teirs, and a light that switchs to honor loses 1 teir. Going from Honor to Light or from Yakuza to Dark is always from a victory and the fighter does not lose any teir but instead goes in at the rank +1 of where they were before their fight.

Thus a person converted does not have to accept the conversion but can lose 2 tiers instead.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
The reason incidentally for allowing a fighter to gain 2 ranks from a successful conversion is to make it have some in game benefit for the one doing the converting.

As for the all flags neutral or only after a successful win, which do people prefer as far as timing for conversions
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
They should have to win the fight first before being able to convert. Makes more sense than stopping in the middle and saying "Hey, don'tcha wanna come be friends now?".
 

Zappo

Villager
Wicht said:
Well - I already have an idea for converting from yakuza or honor to sash and from sash to yakuza or honor. But how about this - A dark that switches to yakuza loses 1 tier, a yakuza that switches to honor loses 2 tiers, A honor that switches to Yakuza loses 2 teirs, and a light that switchs to honor loses 1 teir. Going from Honor to Light or from Yakuza to Dark is always from a victory and the fighter does not lose any teir but instead goes in at the rank +1 of where they were before their fight.

Thus a person converted does not have to accept the conversion but can lose 2 tiers instead.
I like that! Also, it should stack over any losses due to losing the fight - which means that a yakuza converted to honor should drop 1 rank because of losing, and 2 tiers because of the conversion.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Zappo said:
I like that! Also, it should stack over any losses due to losing the fight - which means that a yakuza converted to honor should drop 1 rank because of losing, and 2 tiers because of the conversion.
drop 2 tiers if they switch back to Yakuza that is... right :)
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
*Copied over here where it belongs from the Yakuza thread*

Well, that solves the problem of starting the reset without any higher up Light or Dark fighters which they would need to beat to advance. People can take the Path they choose and if they can find and beat a Yakuza or Honor fighter, then they can switch to being a Light/Dark fighter at that point! Could be a massive rearranging of powers if you had a high tier Honored swithch to being Light path, but it would work OK I think.

How about for the Light/Dark advancement rule, if we made this change: In oreder to advance to the next tier, they must defeat at least one fighter of opposing paths at any time during that tier! So there won't be the roadblock only at the last rank of the tier when people know they are trying to advance and could choose not to fight them just to keep them locked down in that tier. Just beat one enemy anytime in that tier and you can advance to the next tier freely. What do ya'll think? How about you especially Graydoom? Would this help at all do you think?
 

Wicht

Adventurer
woops - shoulda posted my answer here...:)


Personally, I think the fighter should have to decide to switch right around the time of the significant fight - rather than putting it off - but they don't have to switch when they change tiers. A green 2 could switch and become a orange 3 after they win their fight. Thus the switch can occur at any time but it is a life changing decision and if they decide the path is not for them they have to lose a whole tier to switch back to honor fighter. At least that was how I was envisioning it.
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
Wicht, I think you may have misunderstood me. I mean this rule could be applied when a fighter was already a Light or Dark path follower. For instance, a fighter that is Red-2 could win a fight against a villain which advances him to Red-3 but also enables him to advance to the next tier when the time comes. This way they have to beat an enemy once per tier, but not necesarily at the very end of the tier.

As for switching from another path over to the Light/Dark path, I agree that it should happen right after they win the fight, or they have to wait till they beat another enemy.
 
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Wicht

Adventurer
The Path of Darkness

Concept: The followers of the path of darkness are focused on evil. Honor, power, land and skill matter less than spreading the terror of wickedness everywhere. These fighters are loners and often shun the company of others.

Progression and ranks

Dark Apprentice: 0-2
Dark Warrior: 0-4
Dark Knight: 0-6
Dark Master: 0-8
Dark Lord: 0-10
The Void: No ranks

Special Rules: To join the dark path, a Yakuza (or a white belt) must win a fight against an honor or light warrior. After winning they may choose to advance into the path of darkness instead of further into the Yakuza path. A white belt who does this begins as a Dark Apprentice 0. A Yakuza begins at the rank equivalent to what he would be if he had remained a Yakuza.

Dark fighters can only advance in tiers if they defeat a light or honor warrior. However, if the dark fighter ever loses to a light or honor warrior they drop 2 ranks instead of 1. Dark Warriors have 1 buffer rank below their 0 ranks called "Out of Favor". A follower of darkness who is out of favor and wins against a honor or Light Warrior gains 2 ranks but ever only drops 1 rank from such a loss. Dark Apprentices who are "out of favor" and lose a fight are killed. Notice that Dark fighters at rank 0 who lose to a honor or light warrior automatically drop a tier.

The void has no ranks and if this fighter ever loses a fight they drop down to Dark Lord 10.

Special Powers and Abilities
Dark Apprentice: Foul Spirit, Unholy Warrior, Sneaky Trick, Signature Style
Dark Warrior: Master of Shadows, Dirty Trick, Poisoned Blade
Dark Knight: Signature Location, Dirty Trick, Corruption
Dark Master: Mind Thief, Poisoned Blade
Dark Lord: Signature Location, Dirty Trick, Poisoned Blade
The Void: Signature Style, Cunning Attack, Poisoned Blade

Explanation of Powers
Foul Spirit: Because of their evil nature, followers of the path of darkness cannot be insulted and automatically win all insult rounds.

Unholy Warrior: The unholy warrior gains the current location of the fight as a signature location for the duration of the fight or until that location is changed at which point they adopt the new location as a signature location.

Sneaky Trick: As Yakuza

Signature Style: As Honor

Master of Shadows: As Honor

Dirty Trick: As Yakuza

Poisoned Blade: As Yakuza

Corruption: After a successful fight, the dark fighter may attempt to corrupt any sash or honor fighter who is of a lower tier. A corruption round is declared and each fighter posts a move as normal. Any powers that have not come into play in the earlier rounds and which might be useful, (chi strike, dirty trick, sneaky trick, signature immunities) may be used by the fighters. If the corruption is successful, the corrupted fighter becomes a Yakuza of equivalent rank to what they were after losing the fight and the Dark fighter gains 1 extra rank. If the corruption is unsuccessful the honor or sash fighter escapes untainted (though still having lost a rank due to losing the fight) but the power put forth by the dark fighter causes them to lose 2 ranks (i.e. go down a rank from where they were before the fight).

Mind Thief: Now, after a successful corruption, the dark fighter not only gains the extra rank as normal, but also manages to gain some knowledge from their target, namely any one signature style known by the converted fighter.

Cunning Attack: Identical to Perfect attack. The fighter adds 1 point to all successful attacks.

 
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Berandor

lunatic
So what about having to fight a fighter from the opposite side just once in their current tier?

I mean, if a villain was one win away from becoming The Void, most honored fighters just wouldn't fight him, then...

Berandor
 

Wicht

Adventurer
I think the progression presented is basically balanced against the other two. Mind Thief of course makes for a nasty character if used successfully.

Overall however, the path has a total of 4 sigs as opposed to the 10 found in honor and Yakuza. This is made up for with an extra dirty trick, an extra poisoned blade, the unholy warrior/sneaky trick combo and of course Mindthief. (Perhaps we should cap the mind thief power to 5 or 6 stolen sigs)

My main issue is whether the first sig style should be given at the dark apprentice or dark warrior tier. My notes have it scratched out and rewritten in both tiers. It currently is resting in the Dark Apprentice tier but could easily be bumped.

If anyone wants to playtest this at the Dark Knight level vs. a Brown belt please volunteer.

If this looks good the Light path will be very simple to make - in fact I can perfectly mirror the path of darkness with the light path this way.
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
Wicht, what happened to the Corruption succeeding but the fighter not wishing to change and therefore losing ranks or tiers? The player must have that option in my opinion otherwise it will end up like it did before that no one will fight such a person for fear of being corrupted.

I do like that the corruption only draws them over to the Yakuza Path. To be a Dark path follower, it must be voluntary, huh? After becoming Yakuza they would then have to beat a good guy to switch to the Dark path. Cool! :D

Everything else looks good at first glance, but Mind Thief might be too powerful. Could there be something where they can only have 3-5 stolen powers total and if they want to take another, then it replaces one that they already had? Othewise, they will eventually outshine the Honor path in Sig styles. It needs a limit badly, and I would think 5 max would be good. This would leave them with 8 Sig styles max which fits in nicely under the Honor path's 10 Sig styles.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Berandor said:
So what about having to fight a fighter from the opposite side just once in their current tier?

I mean, if a villain was one win away from becoming The Void, most honored fighters just wouldn't fight him, then...

Berandor
If thats the only problem we are doing good - though I think you under-estimate the willingness of our players to accept a fight - As Wicht, Dark Master I never had any problem finding a fight and I was the toughest there was :p

graydoom has problems, but thats cuz hes cursed :D ;)

Seriously, if it really seems to be a problem we can change it - what do others think?

An alternative - we could make it so that dark or light who defeat an enemy of equal or lower tier only advance one, but defeating an enemy of higher tier is worth 1 extra rank for each difference in the tiers, giving incentive to take on tougher enemies.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Phoenix8008 said:
Wicht, what happened to the Corruption succeeding but the fighter not wishing to change and therefore losing ranks or tiers? The player must have that option in my opinion otherwise it will end up like it did before that no one will fight such a person for fear of being corrupted.

Everything else looks good at first glance, but Mind Thief might be too powerful. Could there be something where they can only have 3-5 stolen powers total...
The more I think about it the more I think mind thief should have a cap - 5 seems good to me as well.

As for the corruption causing loss in ranks, I was going to wait till all 5 paths were done and then set in concrete how to switch paths - basically I think each move should cost 1 tier per path moved over with the spectrum being Light, Honor, Sash, Yakuza, Dark. Thus in theory a Light warrior could move to Yakuza and lose three tiers. Once a fighter is converted, if they do not want the path they are in, moving to sash is easiest and cost 1 tier. Moving back to the original path would cost 2 tiers.

If that seems too much the alternative would be something like or 5 ranks per path - thus moving from light to Yakuza would cost 15 ranks. Which system seems better?

Anyways, back to the original question, I did not include them inthe corruption rules just cause I was going to make a general rule for it and place it elsewhere :)
 

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