(YB-META-RULES) Dark/Light

Phoenix8008

Villager
Wicht said:
If thats the only problem we are doing good - though I think you under-estimate the willingness of our players to accept a fight - As Wicht, Dark Master I never had any problem finding a fight and I was the toughest there was :p

graydoom has problems, but thats cuz hes cursed :D ;)

Seriously, if it really seems to be a problem we can change it - what do others think?

An alternative - we could make it so that dark or light who defeat an enemy of equal or lower tier only advance one, but defeating an enemy of higher tier is worth 1 extra rank for each difference in the tiers, giving incentive to take on tougher enemies.
I still think that as long as we have some folks in both sides, then it won't be a problem. There should be enough that want to advance so that they will end up fighting each other if needed.

Wicht, that alternative or something like it could almost be applied to the whole game. Win against lower tier=1 rank, win against equal tier=2 ranks, win against higher tier=3 ranks gained. The same in reverse for losing: Lose against higher tier=1 rank, same tier=2 ranks, lower tier=3 ranks. Just a stupid idea that wouldn't work well though, probably.
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
This has gone a lot quicker than I expected it would, Wicht. If the Light path is that easy to mirror, then we only have the tricky sash path left to tackle after that. That'll be interesting. Do ya think that after all are written up and agreed upon here we should put a notice out in the general forum to call back all the old players and have them check out the new rules? Not to mention it possibly attracting newer players too! :D At this rate, the new YB could be ready next week!! Scary...:eek:
 

Berandor

lunatic
Phoenix8008 said:


Wicht, that alternative or something like it could almost be applied to the whole game. Win against lower tier=1 rank, win against equal tier=2 ranks, win against higher tier=3 ranks gained. The same in reverse for losing: Lose against higher tier=1 rank, same tier=2 ranks, lower tier=3 ranks. Just a stupid idea that wouldn't work well though, probably.
That would only work, imo, if the influence of randomness was severely pulled back - nad that I wouldn't want.

What about gaining two against someone two tiers higher, and losing two against two tiers lower?
That would be acceptable, imo.

Otherwise, a yellow belt 0 fighting a white and losing would become white again, while the white would be yellow 2. That's just not possible if the chance of losing against a yellow belt wasn't very high.

Berandor
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Phoenix8008 said:


I still think that as long as we have some folks in both sides, then it won't be a problem. There should be enough that want to advance so that they will end up fighting each other if needed.
Thats really what I think too...

As for the other idea, something like it could be implemented - I think with the newer progressions and powers, beating a fighter from a higher tier is going to be a bit more difficult - though perhaps we should have a couple inter-tier fights to see.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Phoenix8008 said:
This has gone a lot quicker than I expected it would, Wicht. If the Light path is that easy to mirror, then we only have the tricky sash path left to tackle after that. That'll be interesting. Do ya think that after all are written up and agreed upon here we should put a notice out in the general forum to call back all the old players and have them check out the new rules? Not to mention it possibly attracting newer players too! :D At this rate, the new YB could be ready next week!! Scary...:eek:
Yeah the sash will be the trickiest - but what with balancing it against the current set ups and stealing ideas from YBA and the YB rules committee postings I think it is doable.

As for the Light path - I did it up at the same time as I did the dark and just wanted to see what changes should be made to the dark before posting it - so actually it will probably by done by today :)

And then after the sash is done, we can lay out the rules for
1)switching paths
2)creating items
3)???

and then Yeah - I would advertise it in General and see what new (or old) players we can get...

Berandor; I wouldn't change the faq till its all finished and in place.
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
How about this for ranks lost from fighting different power levels of opponents? If you beat fighter of a lower tier than you, then you only gain 1 rank, but if the underdog wins they could gain one or more ranks. You subtract the lowest tier from the higest tier to get how many ranks would be lost or gained with 1 as a minimum in both cases.

To use Berandor's example of Yellow-0 vs. White first, if the Yellow wins, he only gets one rank gain because he is of a higher tier than the White. If the White wins, he gains one rank also because the tier difference is one.

If a tier 4 fighter beats a tier 2 fighter, then he gains 1 rank and the tier 2 fighter loses 1 rank. But if the Tier 2 fighter beats the Tier 4 fighter, he gains 2 ranks and the tier 4 fighter loses 2 ranks(once again, the number of ranks is the difference in their tiers).

That is more balanced and only awards a fighter for winning against a more powerful foe without decreasing the minimum of 1 rank gained for winning against anyone. Now what do you think?
 

Berandor

lunatic
Phoenix: I like that idea!
I still think to have to fight a villain at the last rank within a tier is a bit cumbersome. At least say in the upper half of it, or one of the last three matches must have been against such a one.

Wicht: I was asking about the FAQ because if I know type up all powers and belts (which would be next in my schedule), then this would be helluva work. If we'd introduce the new rules next weekend, or somesuch, then I'd be loath to do all this.

It would be nice, too, if you'd look over the FAQ so far, and tell me if you find anything lacking.

Berandor
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
Berandor, so you think opening it up to beating an enemy once at any point in the tier to advance is too open-ended? I just thought it would be easier than having to do it at the last rank in the tier or at some other specific place in the tier.
 
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Berandor

lunatic
Phoenix: No, anytime within the tier is fine by me; perhaps I misunderstood your last reply.

I also think that having to fight a fighter from the opposite rank exactly when at the top of the tier is too cumbersome; I just thought anytime in the tier wasn't appreciated, so I brainstormed some more options...

You could level up this requirement within the tier system... so that a dark/light fighter would have to fight against a number of opposing fighters that are equal to their tier position minus one.

Thug would need 1 honored opponent.
Gang Boss 2
Gang Lord 3
Warlord 4
Overlord 5?

But on the other hand, we are striving for simplicity, and this makes it complicated...

Ber
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Light Progression and powers

well I got them done so might as well post them -

The Path of Light

Concept: The followers of the path of light are less concerned about skill, power or politics and more concerned with the triumph of good over evil. They are holy warriors dedicated to the eradication of evil from the land. They seldom act together but tend to be lone defenders of truth and goodness.

Progression and Ranks
white belt: No ranks
Apprentice of Light/Blue Belt: 0-2
Warrior of Light/Orange Belt: 0-4
Knight of the Light/Red Belt: 0-6
Master of Light: 0-8
Lord of Light: 0-10
The Luminary: No Ranks

Special Rules: To join the path of light, a Honor fighter (or a white belt) must win a fight against a Yakuza or dark fighter. After winning they may choose to advance into the path of light instead of further into the honor path. A white belt who does this begins as a Blue Belt 0. An honor fighter begins at the rank equivalent to what he would be if he had remained an honor fighter.

Light fighters can only advance in tiers if they defeat a dark fighter or Yakuza warrior. However, if the light fighter ever loses to a Yakuza ordark fighter they drop 2 ranks instead of 1. Light Fighters have 1 buffer rank below their 0 ranks called "Fallen from Grace". A follower of light who is fallen from grace and wins against a Yakuza or Dark Warrior gains 2 ranks but ever only drops 1 rank from such a loss. Blue Belts who are "Fallen from grace" and lose a fight are made white belts again. Notice that light fighters at rank 0 who lose to a dark or Yakuza warrior automatically drop a tier.

The Luminary has no ranks and if this fighter ever loses a fight they drop down to Lord of Light 10.

Special Powers and Abilities
Apprentice of Light/Blue Belt: Pure Spirit, Holy Warrior, Holy Day, Signature Style
Warrior of Light/Orange Belt: Master of Emotions, Mastery, Chi Strike
Knight of the Light/Red Belt: Signature Style, Purity of Focus, Redeeming Light
Master of Light: Mastery, Right of Domain
Lord of Light: Signature Style, Purity of Focus, Mastery
The Luminary: Perfect Defense, Signature Styly, Mastery

Explanation of Powers
Pure Spirit: The fighter is above insults and always forfeits the insult round

Holy Warrior: The fighter gains the style of the day as a signature style untilt he end of the fight or until the style of the day is changed, at which point the fighter adopts the new style as a signature style

Holy Day: The fighter may once per fight declare a new Holy day, thus changing the style of the day.

Signature Style: As honor path

Master of Emotions: As Honor path

Chi Strike: As Honor Path

Mastery: As Honor Path

Purity of Focus: After a dirty trick or sneaky trick has been declared, the light fighter can use a purity of focus to negate the trick. This may be done once per fight per purity of focused possessed.

Redeeming Light After a successful fight, the light fighter may attempt to redeem any sash or yakuza fighter who is of a lower tier. A redemption round is declared and each fighter posts a move as normal. Any powers that have not come into play in the earlier rounds and which might be useful, (chi strike, dirty trick, sneaky trick, signature immunities) may be used by the fighters. If the redemption is successful, the redeemed fighter becomes a Honor fighter of equivalent rank to what they were after losing the fight and the Light fighter gains 1 extra rank. If the redemption is unsuccessful the yakuza or sash fighter escapes unchanged (though still having lost a rank due to losing the fight) but the power put forth by the light fighter causes them to lose 2 ranks (i.e. go down a rank from where they were before the fight).

Right of Domain: The light fighter, after redeeming a fighter, may now, in addition to the extra rank, claim one of the fighters signature locations as their own. There is a limit of 5 domains that may be claimed in this way.

Perfect Defense Like Cunning Defense. The fighter subtracts 1 point from any successful attack against them.



I know that there are still questions about the advancement from tier to tier - but we can change the light and dark together - How about that the fighter must have defeated at least as many enemies as their tier number, thus an apprentice would have to defeat 2 to advance, a warrior 3, a knight 4 and so on...
 
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reiella

Villager
Only thing that really bothers me here is if a situation like we currently have recurs.

Where there is only one 'Dark' character.

Or for that matter only one 'Light' character (which it sorta looks like is the case now).

And while it might be fun for Niko and me to constantly trying to smack each other senseless to go up a tier :).

The only real problem with mind thief is it is a powerful ability, if you happen to fight alot of people lower tiered than you. And just notice how long it takes for me to get a fight with anyone as it is now.

It results in something that's rather hindering (since until you get a fair number of Mind Thief's in, your abilities are weaker than counterparts). A cap does work well, but as for numbers, I have my doubts that many Dark Knights would ever get more than 4 sig styles total in a 6month timespan.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
reiella said:
Only thing that really bothers me here is if a situation like we currently have recurs.

Where there is only one 'Dark' character.
The light path can go up by besting yakuza while the dark path can best honor


The only real problem with mind thief is it is a powerful ability, if you happen to fight alot of people lower tiered than you. And just notice how long it takes for me to get a fight with anyone as it is now.

It results in something that's rather hindering (since until you get a fair number of Mind Thief's in, your abilities are weaker than counterparts). A cap does work well, but as for numbers, I have my doubts that many Dark Knights would ever get more than 4 sig styles total in a 6month timespan.
I think if you compare the abilities of the Dark Path to the suggested honor/light/or Yakuza path it will hold up on its own without the mind-thief, maybe a little weaker but not much. The poisoned blades are pretty nice as is the sneaky trick/unholy warrior combo.

With the addition of extra sig styles due to mind thief the dark path becomes just a little more powerful than the honor/yakuza paths
 

Berandor

lunatic
O.K., now that four paths are up, it's time for my well.prepared assault on the rules integrity...

Aww, man, I can't.

These rules are good!

Berandor
 

Kalanyr

Villager
Wicht it seems to me that the lower tier dark fighters (Apprentice & Warrior) are more powerful than their light equivalents:

They always win insults vs always losing and while Unholy Warrior is not as good as Holy Warrior since locations don't give immunities the trick makes up for it, giving the Dark fighter a slight edge or is there some balance to this I'm not seeing? At the higher ranks the extra Sig Styles make up for the loss of insult rounds its just at the bottom I see a problem.

Just a flavour thing but wouldn't Supreme Master suit a light Warrior better than Emotion? Since emotion includes things like wrathful.
 
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Wicht

Adventurer
the ability to win the insults is actually pretty minor... I'm not sure how much I would fiddle around with this based on just that one power - the holy warriors have just the slightest edge in the actual fight.

I am really more concerned (just a little) that 2nd tier dark/light fighters are a little more powerful than their honor/yakuza counterparts but again the difference is statistically slight.

As far as the supreme styles - those are the best modifiers and anyone getting those modifiers wins rounds more often than not.
 

Kalanyr

Villager
True about the insults and the Supreme Style, the Supreme modifers just seems more fitting but I see your point.

As to the Light/Dark being slightly more powerful you have to do slightly more to get on to those paths so it shouldn't make too much of a difference.
 
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