D&D 3E/3.5 Yet another 3.5e Sorceror modification post.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

For those interested, I've finished my "dragon domain" lists for the dragons in the Monster Manual. Check out the attachment.

I'd do something for the Gem Dragons, if I could find that web enhancement again, but I don't think Gem Dragon bloodlines should give a predisposition to sorcery. (Psionics, perhaps, but that'd be a clear case for supplemental feats instead of houseruling a class.)

 

[Eolin]

This is basicaly exactly what I wound up doing.

 

[Gnome]

I don't think Sorcerors are weak. I think they're bland, which is worse.

I agree with this. I've always thought that sorcerors should be much different from wizards, not just a tradeoff for more spellcasting at the expense of versitility. They should have their own flavor and abilities, so that having a sorceror and a wizard in the same party doesn't seem redundant.

I don't have a ton of ideas as to how this should be accomplished, but I like the eschew materials feat for starters. 4 skill points/level also makes a lot of sense. Additionally, what do people think of this idea:

Sorcerors may use any metamagic feat (with the exception of quicken spell) without a need for the relevant feat. Instead of the spell using a higher-level spell slot, one round is added to the casting time for each additional level that would normally be added to the spell level, which greatly limits the effectiveness of this tactic in combat. Perhaps this restriction could be slowly eased over time, reducing the casting time by 1 round for every 5 sorceror levels or some such.

 

[IndyPendant]

Thanks for the feedback everyone (and keep it coming too, if you have anything new to add! : )

This version has has *much* more positive feedback than the last one I tried last summer. I've also run it past my players last weekend, and they like it too. So I'm going to use it from now on--keeping an eye on things to make sure I haven't now overpowered the sorceror. (I don't think I have.)

Have fun!

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

They should have their own flavor and abilities, so that having a sorceror and a wizard in the same party doesn't seem redundant.

I think the difference between bonus Item Creation and Metamagic feats for the Wizard and Draconic feats for the Sorceror accomplishes this, as long as you're comfortable with making the Sorceror's "dragon flavor" more overt.

Sorcerors may use any metamagic feat (with the exception of quicken spell) without a need for the relevant feat. Instead of the spell using a higher-level spell slot, one round is added to the casting time for each additional level that would normally be added to the spell level, which greatly limits the effectiveness of this tactic in combat. Perhaps this restriction could be slowly eased over time, reducing the casting time by 1 round for every 5 sorceror levels or some such.

I'd say that this is way too useful for buff and utility spells, which do not need to be cast in combat-- especially since the Sorceror need not have the feats in order to use them. It makes the Wizard nearly irrelevant, when they're already lagging in spells per day.

As the casting time restriction gets lowered, this gets even worse, especially when the higher level metamagics can be used with no boost-- 10th or 15th level, for instance.

 

[Terath Ninir]

I'd say that this is way too useful for buff and utility spells, which do not need to be cast in combat-- especially since the Sorceror need not have the feats in order to use them. It makes the Wizard nearly irrelevant, when they're already lagging in spells per day.

The crappy spell selection of the Sorcerer more than makes up for that -- sure, a sorcerer might spend *one* spell slot on a buff spell, but I can't imagine one taking more than that. They're barely able to do anything as it is; concentrating on buff spells would only make that worse.

I hear people saying the metamagic would make the sorcerer too powerful -- but even with it, I doubt I could persuade one of my players to play a sorcerer. They're bland, low-power versions of wizards.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I hear people saying the metamagic would make the sorcerer too powerful -- but even with it, I doubt I could persuade one of my players to play a sorcerer. They're bland, low-power versions of wizards.

I don't have a problem with metamagic that doesn't increase casting time-- but metamagic without an increase in spell level, and metamagic without taking the requisite feats, are too powerful.

 

[Kerrick]

In our campaign, we gave the sorcerer the ability to specialize in an element - air (electricity), fire, water (ice), or earth (acid). You gain the normal bonuses for specialization. They also gain the bonus metamagic feats (though I like your version, Indy - *yoink*) and a couple new class skills (though I'm not sure about giving them Knowledge (arcana)). I agree with Li that 1/25 is way too low - I'd go with the standard 1/5.

 

[Telas]

Excellent, Smithers!

This is exactly where I was headed with it, but simpler. (Hooray Simple!!) I thought Sorc was pretty balanced, until a player took it as a class. Then I recognized the skill differences (Wiz=Int), and the metamagic feats started to add up....

I'd justify the skill points by saying: "Who needs to study when you've got raw talent?"

Metamagic time penalties don't make sense to me. Why should it take longer to cast a silenced spell? It should just take more "juice".

The familiar would be available as a Feat. I like familiars for spellcasters, but the Sorcerer should give up something.

And I'm not sure about the Eschew Materials element. I can see it either way. The Sorcerer may have innate power to manipulate magic, but he still needs the physical foci to work through. Or, he sinks some of "himself" into the spells. I'd set a 10:1 ratio on the costs, though, just because I respect Li's opinion.

Telas

 

[dagger]

Don't want to hijack, but this probablly does not need a new thread. How about taking the core sor and allowing him to pick from any spell (arcane and divine)? Think that would go towards his blandness and weakness issues?