Undead Lincoln
First Post
Dagger, I have played with the skill changes above and allowing the sorc to chose any cleric, wizard, or druid spell (Bard, paladin and ranger have problems). It was balanced for my group at the time.
D&D 3E/3.5 Yet another 3.5e Sorceror modification post.
- Thread starter IndyPendant
- Start date
Arkhandus
First Post
IndyPendant,
The only thing I think you should change is boost the XP cost of ignoring material components, to probably 1/10th the GP cost, rounded up. It's nothing for a high-level sorcerer to cast a spell with a 1,000 GP component if they can just ignore it for merely 40 XP (they get hundreds if not thousands of XP per critter they explode, and they can just go around blowing up stuff barely sufficient to provide XP....but it'll still be a piece of cake. 1/25th the GP cost in XP won't have any impact whatsoever but to make material components a joke, one that wizards alone have to endure). After all, you can't find 10,000 GP worth of diamond dust just anywhere, but you can find a lone dire bear or minotaur or the like just about anywhere to blow up for 400 XP (if you even need to find such a mediocre critter to get 400 XP; you could probably find a suitable orc or grell that's sufficient). Even a 1st-level sorcerer gets at least 50-100 XP per kobold they zap with a Magic Missile, and they can pop like 4 of those a day. :^D Maybe even make the XP cost 1/5th the GP cost....that's probably the highest amount reasonable. But probably allow them to bypass most focus components that aren't directly used in a spell (so they couldn't bypass the mirror for Scry, or the gem for Trap the Soul, or the weapon for Magic Weapon, but they could bypass anything less directly involved in the spell's effect).
The only thing I think you should change is boost the XP cost of ignoring material components, to probably 1/10th the GP cost, rounded up. It's nothing for a high-level sorcerer to cast a spell with a 1,000 GP component if they can just ignore it for merely 40 XP (they get hundreds if not thousands of XP per critter they explode, and they can just go around blowing up stuff barely sufficient to provide XP....but it'll still be a piece of cake. 1/25th the GP cost in XP won't have any impact whatsoever but to make material components a joke, one that wizards alone have to endure). After all, you can't find 10,000 GP worth of diamond dust just anywhere, but you can find a lone dire bear or minotaur or the like just about anywhere to blow up for 400 XP (if you even need to find such a mediocre critter to get 400 XP; you could probably find a suitable orc or grell that's sufficient). Even a 1st-level sorcerer gets at least 50-100 XP per kobold they zap with a Magic Missile, and they can pop like 4 of those a day. :^D Maybe even make the XP cost 1/5th the GP cost....that's probably the highest amount reasonable. But probably allow them to bypass most focus components that aren't directly used in a spell (so they couldn't bypass the mirror for Scry, or the gem for Trap the Soul, or the weapon for Magic Weapon, but they could bypass anything less directly involved in the spell's effect).
Razz0putin
Explorer
I really like your eschew materials aspect
IndyPendant
First Post
Heh. Incoming! Thread resurrection!
It did remind me though, I never thanked everyone for their feedback. And btw, this changed sorceror has been in play in my weekly Temple game, with a 9th-level char, and I have a starting sorceror in my PbP game linked in my sig. So far I haven't even noticed a difference in power level from these changes, but my players love them. So barring some obscure disaster, this is how things will stand for sorcerors in my campaigns.
As to the xp objection, give me an example where 'repeated casting' wouldn't put the sorceror significantly behind the rest of the party in xp? Keep in mind, it's not just xp-per-battle that needs to be taken into consideration, but also comparitive xp with the other characters. If the sorceror uses this ability too much, he'll start laggin behind--and that alone will balance any greater power the sorceror gains by throwing around powerful spells with an xp cost.
It did remind me though, I never thanked everyone for their feedback. And btw, this changed sorceror has been in play in my weekly Temple game, with a 9th-level char, and I have a starting sorceror in my PbP game linked in my sig. So far I haven't even noticed a difference in power level from these changes, but my players love them. So barring some obscure disaster, this is how things will stand for sorcerors in my campaigns.
As to the xp objection, give me an example where 'repeated casting' wouldn't put the sorceror significantly behind the rest of the party in xp? Keep in mind, it's not just xp-per-battle that needs to be taken into consideration, but also comparitive xp with the other characters. If the sorceror uses this ability too much, he'll start laggin behind--and that alone will balance any greater power the sorceror gains by throwing around powerful spells with an xp cost.
I played a Sorc from 6th to 27th level, we just beat a prismasaurus in a cave this evening.
What? where would you put that encounter?
Anyway, it's a weak class, and the "talk to the hand" reaction they get from Quicken Spell is a detriment that overshoots any attempt to balance the class. I like your idea a lot, but I think I'd go with something like...
• 4+Int skill points
• Applying metamagic feats requires a move-action, not a full round. This make quicken spell almost as pointless, but not if the Sorcerer wasn't going to move more than 5 feet in a given round. There would be no way to decrease this requirement, save for maybe a PrC, sorta like Incantatrix.
• Some spells should have their Sor/Wiz level split likewise. Some spells are more Wizardly, IMO, and could use lower levels for Wizards. Analyze dweomer, for argument sake, could be Sor/Wiz 6th/5th; or you could lower some spells to better suit themselves to Sorcerer work: cone of cold Sor/Wiz 4th/5th, polar ray Sor/Wiz 7th/9th... or something else to your whim. It would keep the list together (unlike Monte's revised sorcerer spell list in Eldritch..) and still allow for diversity between the two classes.
So, all that as well as your Eschew Materials revisit, now that I've seen it. Nice work, btw. Good stuff.
What? where would you put that encounter?
Anyway, it's a weak class, and the "talk to the hand" reaction they get from Quicken Spell is a detriment that overshoots any attempt to balance the class. I like your idea a lot, but I think I'd go with something like...
• 4+Int skill points
• Applying metamagic feats requires a move-action, not a full round. This make quicken spell almost as pointless, but not if the Sorcerer wasn't going to move more than 5 feet in a given round. There would be no way to decrease this requirement, save for maybe a PrC, sorta like Incantatrix.
• Some spells should have their Sor/Wiz level split likewise. Some spells are more Wizardly, IMO, and could use lower levels for Wizards. Analyze dweomer, for argument sake, could be Sor/Wiz 6th/5th; or you could lower some spells to better suit themselves to Sorcerer work: cone of cold Sor/Wiz 4th/5th, polar ray Sor/Wiz 7th/9th... or something else to your whim. It would keep the list together (unlike Monte's revised sorcerer spell list in Eldritch..) and still allow for diversity between the two classes.
So, all that as well as your Eschew Materials revisit, now that I've seen it. Nice work, btw. Good stuff.
IndyPendant
First Post
I understand what you're saying, Baron, but adjusting spell lists is *exactly* the kind of bookkeeping I refuse to bother with. A simple but effective change was my goal from the start. : )
And just for the record, I've houseruled that all of the feats that alter a spell's casting time (Quicken Spell, Rapid Spell, some from my own file) do not suffer the Spontaneous Casting penalty.
And just for the record, I've houseruled that all of the feats that alter a spell's casting time (Quicken Spell, Rapid Spell, some from my own file) do not suffer the Spontaneous Casting penalty.
Terath Ninir
Yog Sothoth loves you
IndyPendant said:
If you ever get urges in that direction, get Monte Cook's Book of Eldritch Might. He moved spells around on the sorcerer list. I'm not hardcore enough to use that, though.
