Yet Another Gish Fix

[Inez Hull]

My players don't really go for Gish'es but I know a lot of folks around here have issues with its implementation in 3.xe. A possible fix occured to me which may well have been suggested in house rules, but I don't usually check out this part of the boards so please ignore if it has.

At present it seems that prestige classes are the main fix for making the Gish work but I'm going to suggest a simpler alternative. For every level possessed in two classes you make take a gestalt level combining those two classes. E.g. A Ftr 2 / Wiz 3, could take a level of Gestalt Ftr/Wiz for their next two levels. It seems a bit simpler and more intuitive than PrC's like the Elddritch Knight. In fact theres no reason why this couldn't be extended to all multiclassing. The additive BAB, saves and hit points element of multiclassing in 3.x works well but its the loss of spells, powers and class abilities that hurts. This method would go some way to alleviating that without needing a PrC for every class combo.

Is this helpful / balanced for Gish users?

 

[Arkhandus]

I don't know about multiclass caster types, but I do think it would result in a lot more fighter/barbarians, fighter/rogues, and such. Probably devalue the monk and paladin a bit as a result of them not being able to multiclass without penalty. Not sure it would actually help the warrior-mage types, though it would help sorcerer/rogues or whatnot to qualify for Arcane Trickster sooner, and cleric/wizards to become Mystic Theurges sooner.

As far as an Eldritch Knight goes, they might be fighter 4/wizard 3/gestalt 3/EK 10, casting as per a 15th-level wizard (no 9th-level spells) and fighting like a 13th-level fighter or so, or ftr 1/wiz 8/gestalt 1/EK 10 making them cast like a wizard 18 and fight like a fighter 7. Ignoring prestige classes? Fighter 1/wizard 18/gestalt 1 is rather worse, though fighter 6/wizard 8/gestalt 6 is decent (fights like a fighter 16 but with much fewer combat feats and lower hit points, casts like a wizard 14, but has to choose between mithral armor with some ASF or no armor and a low or mediocre AC that just won't protect them well).

It may work out decently, I dunno, but I'm not sure it'll fix anything.

 

[Herobizkit]

Playing gestalt rules fixes Gish's, by design.

 

[Will]

I'm really enjoying gestalt game, though it's pretty much shorted out the brains of the new players.

I'm a paladin/fighter&monte cook bard, we have a fighter/dwarven defender&cleric, druid&wizard, cleric&rogue, sorcerer&fighter, and barbarian&fighter.

REALLY fun and don't have the feeling of imminent failure like regular multiclassing.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Full Gestalt games are really powerful. Five levels or less (we are still fine tuning it) as a prestige class of sorts does help with weak multiclassing. After awhile I just ditched favored classes and allowed demihumans a two level gestalt with their favored class instead (if they a) have levels in the class and b) are not single-classed in that class), but I've not been able to play test it yet.

 

[Shazman]

I've considered having non-spellcasting classes increase caster level on a 1 to 3 basis. That way a fighter 10/wizard 10 would cast as wizard 13. With practiced spellcaster, it wouldn't be too bad. I'd thought about a 1 to 2 basis, but it seemed just too good.