You Judge Miko (OOTS)

[S'mon]

"I don't believe in binding characters in a fantasy or sci-fi setting to the peculiarities of modern jurisprudence"

This is the weirdest thing about OOTS for me - do people really play the game like this? It's hard enough to play a paladin in th first place, without having to abide by the California penal code or similar.

Edit: That said, clearly Hinjo's suggested course of action was the correct one. Miko's act was what we used to consider Chaotic Good, back in the old days, but probably more like CN now.

 

[Holy Bovine]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html

For you 'No' people; it appears not everyone agrees with your anaylsis.

Game. Set. Match. Fell.

 

[Henry]

Not as published in official D&D sources. (Lancelot & Galahad are both paladins in 1E AD&D Deities & Demigods, Arthurian legends section).

Although didn't that very entry say something about Lancelot losing his paladin abilities for a time until his atonement? I could have sworn that it was mentioned somewhere in there.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Although didn't that very entry say something about Lancelot losing his paladin abilities for a time until his atonement? I could have sworn that it was mentioned somewhere in there.

It says (from my 1E D&D pg 20) " [Launcelot] was able to use all of the powers of a Paladin, until he fell from grace by being tricked into loving King Pelles' daughter, the lovely Elaine..."

Man that's pretty harsh! get laid and lose your holy powers - yeesh!

 

[shilsen]

"I don't believe in binding characters in a fantasy or sci-fi setting to the peculiarities of modern jurisprudence"

This is the weirdest thing about OOTS for me - do people really play the game like this? It's hard enough to play a paladin in th first place, without having to abide by the California penal code or similar.

Actually, yes - I do absolutely play the game like this. D&D as written maps very poorly onto the historical medieval/renaissance period, so I figure that morality and legality in the world should be based on what the world contains, which may include some significantly modern concepts and some significantly medieval ones, as long as they're not contradictory. That's one reason why I really like the listing and description of laws in Keith Baker's "Sharn: City of Towers" book for the Eberron setting. Some of the laws have a significantly medieval flavor and some are quite modern. In a world of magic, a purely medieval approach would be just as out of place as a purely modern one. An intelligent mix between the two, as well as including laws about things that haven't existed in our world, is required.

So, in short, fairly modern laws do have a place in my game.

 

[Klaus]

Yep. Lancelot in 1e AD&D was a fallen Paladin. Arthur was a Paladin/Bard. Galahad was a full-blown Paladin. IIRC, the 2e Deities & Demigods pegged Lancelot as Fighter.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Yep. Lancelot in 1e AD&D was a fallen Paladin. Arthur was a Paladin/Bard. Galahad was a full-blown Paladin. IIRC, the 2e Deities & Demigods pegged Lancelot as Fighter.

If not the Deities and Demigods (I didn't own the 2e version of that - was there one?), most certainly Legends & Lore listed him as a Fighter.

 

[kigmatzomat]

The key thing is that a "fallen" paladin is not an ex-paladin until they refuse or are unable to atone.

Miko could have avoided performing an evil act had she listened to Hinjo and had a trial. She refused to allow a trial based on the possibility that Shojo had corrupted them. She believes the OotS is in league with Xykon primarily because they "lied" to her when they said Xykon was destroyed and liars are evil, ergo in league with Xykon. She ignores the fact that she was sent by Shojo to capture the OotS. If Shojo was in league with Xykon and the OotS why would it be necessary to send her? Why not use one of his non-Saphire Guard vassals of Azure City?

So if she cops to her mistakes and if she is willing to actively counteract her flaws she can atone. But I don't think she'll do it.

Miko's problem is that she only has one form of "believe." She believes in the edicts of the gods, believes with all her heart and soul and thus is a paladin. However she doesn't have the "uncertain" definition of "believe" as in "I believe the I left the gas on but I'm not sure." She has no uncertainty.

Redcloak really did nail it.

BTW, I'm amused that Redcloak is essentially Miko's Roy.

 

[Henry]

Man that's pretty harsh! get laid and lose your holy powers - yeesh!

So, does this mean Joss Whedon follows the Gary Gygax School of Sex Education? Have sex and (you lose your soul/your boyfriend turns evil/you lose your paladin powers)!

 

[Storm Raven]

It says (from my 1E D&D pg 20) " [Launcelot] was able to use all of the powers of a Paladin, until he fell from grace by being tricked into loving King Pelles' daughter, the lovely Elaine..."

Man that's pretty harsh! get laid and lose your holy powers - yeesh!

More like "have sex with a woman you don't love, knock her up, and cruelly spurn her after she has your baby causing her to commit suicide."