You Judge Miko (OOTS)

[Klaus]

No just "yes" but "Hell yes"

I mean, pretty much every word of dialogue from her "Fall" comic is textbook.

He said it.

 

[2WS-Steve]

One thing I find interesting is that, going by the very active discussion and debate in the other thread, I would have guessed that the poll would split out closer to 30/70 or 40/60 (still in favor of Miko falling, but much closer in number).

 

[Knight Otu]

Fall, definitely.

1. She lets anger and arrogance cloud her judgment. She takes action without knowing the facts, and fills in the blanks with her own theory.

2. She executes Shojo where such an execution is widely out of proportion - Shojo may be a liar and manipulator, but he was no immediate threat to the security of Azure City or the Paladins (it would have been an entirely different matter if he had been about to open the city doors or something similar). The prompt execution of Shojo served no practical Orderly or Good purpose. It especially does not prevent or slow down the approach of Xykon's army.

3. She ignores the legitimate authority for the case, Hinjo. She effectively calls him unenlightened (unlike herself, "who had a revelation").

4. She ignores the imminent threat from the approaching army of Xykon*, thereby potentially jeopardizing the defense of Azure City for her own personal vendetta. And by the looks of it, she would not have stopped with killing Shojo, but would also then attack Roy and Belkar, possibly injuring Hinjo in the process. And after that? The rest of the Order? (

Spoiler

Her drastic fall mitigates some of the potentially devestating results her actions could have had.

) *She is of course aware of it, but rather than prepare the paladins and the city defenses for the inevitable attack, she chooses to pursue her vendetta as I said before.

5. She does not even try to find out why Xykon still exists when he is supposedly destroyed, instead taking his continued existance as proof for her personal beliefs (and with so much Knowledge (religion) around her, it shouldn't be that hard to know about liches).

 

[Umbran]

All that aside I don't think it quite enough for a fall.

*blink* Not to turn this into too much of a "ethics of paladinhood" thread, but... During a moment of crisis for the city, she has attacked the rightful ruler of said city and her order, and quite possibly slain him, when a course more within the laws of her culture was available to her! What, in your games, is required to fall? Eating raw babies?

 

[Quartz]

Don't you think there was an eensy-weensy bit of foreshadowing when she failed to harm the Monster Under The Umbrella? Like her Smite Evil wasn't working?

She's deservedly Fallen, but she's not beyond atonement. The first step will be recognition of and remorse for what she's done. If she's going to atone, we should see that in her next episode.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

What, in your games, is required to fall? Eating raw babies?

Cue Homer Simpson:
"mnmn, raw babies. . . *drools & shudders in pleasure*"

 

[LogicsFate]

Eating raw babies?

Hmmm, I could see a few instances where they'd keep their Paladinhoodship.

Now still alive babies... unless it's some baby eating relegion. :\

I don't know I've always been easy on my paladins, though if they do fall, I bring down a big hammer.

 

[interwyrm]

For some reason, I always thought that if a paladin commits an act he knows is evil, he can't even atone, and if he commits an evil act, but doesn't know it's evil (a.k.a. miko) he falls but can atone.

Anyone know where I got that idea?

 

[wayne62682]

For some reason, I always thought that if a paladin commits an act he knows is evil, he can't even atone, and if he commits an evil act, but doesn't know it's evil (a.k.a. miko) he falls but can atone.

Anyone know where I got that idea?

That sounds like how it is supposed to be... if you WILLINGLY commit an evil act you lose your powers forever; if it's unwilling (or you're possessed or under an evil spell) and do evil then you still lose your powers, but you can atone for them. The thing is... Miko WILLINGLY killed Shojo. Granted, she's under the delusion that he's evil and she's right, but she could have waited until it was proven and chose not to; she's not under a spell or compulsion effect, she just decided that as a paladin she has the "divine duty" to execute someone who she believes to be a traitor without any real proof other than "I asked the gods to reveal the real enemies to me, and you just so happened to say that you were lying after I prayed for clarity". It's like assuming someone is a murderer because you pray to have the clues revealed to you, and then someone happens to run past you in a hurry shortly afterwards. That counts rather strongly as "willingly commit an evil act" in my book.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

For some reason, I always thought that if a paladin commits an act he knows is evil, he can't even atone, and if he commits an evil act, but doesn't know it's evil (a.k.a. miko) he falls but can atone.

Anyone know where I got that idea?

Probably the atonement spell which distinguishes (iirc) between deliberately breaking your code or doing it under duress/mental compulsion/accidentally.

I think it is possible for Miko to atone, but generally don't see it as within her character to admit that she was wrong, which would be the first step. The dramatic and forceful nature of the gods' judgement might lead to a realistic exception.