"You possess a spellbook."

[DreamChaser]

I don't quite follow what a class feature has to do with two classes starting with 50 gold extra worth of gear. I'm not saying that the wizard or cleric shouldn't have the ritual book to start, just that other classes should start with something worth 50 gold since that is 50 percent of starting funds.

Because possessing the spell / ritual book IS a class feature. Or at least a portion of a class feature.

DC

 

[Mistwell]

If the party is benefiting from the use of rituals, I can't see the logic of the wizard or cleric alone paying for them.

And the party benefits from the use of the Fighters sword, and the Rangers bow, and the Warlocks Rod, but I assure you the party isn't going to pay for those items.

Rituals are a key class ability. Just because others benefit from them doesn't make them any less an individual ability, just like the items those other classes use with their class abilities.

In most groups, group fees are paid for by the group. Wizard used comprehend languages 4 times during the adventure in the ancient temple so the party could figure out what was going on? Not a cost for the wizard alone. Cleric casts raise dead on the party fighter who died saving the party, not a cost for the cleric alone.

So counting the cost of components that the rest of the party will most likely be paying for also, seems like a poor reason for the rest of the classes to not start with 50 gold more worth of class related items.

Many rituals are not big group benefits. You've cherry picked some to make your point, but that's not representative of how rituals in general are likely to be used. If the Wizard wants to use the water walk ritual, it's likely just him water walking. And I think that is at worst an equally representative ritual to those you pointed out. Many rituals are substitutions for what used to be standard spells in 3.x, and their purpose was mainly to extend the casting time. But they are still supposed to be essentially Wizard spells, which is a normal key class ability.

 

[lukelightning]

Many rituals are not big group benefits. You've cherry picked some to make your point, but that's not representative of how rituals in general are likely to be used. If the Wizard wants to use the water walk ritual, it's likely just him water walking.

I disagree. Most of the rituals seem to be for the benefit of the entire party. Warding the party while you sleep. Transporting the entire party. Gain information for the entire party.

Waterwalk? You're likely to cast that on the entire party in order to overcome an obstacle.

Fighters' swords and rangers' bows are entirely different; they aren't consuming $ with every use.

 

[Sarck]

I thought of the same thing...

I had the idea of a spellbook that was a lich's phylactery; the lich's soul was secretly inserted into the text of the spells, so that if you prepare and use spells from the book, you slowly fall under the lich's influence and become possessed.

I thought I was so clever, but then I realized this is basically the plot to Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.

And pretty much Raistlin's character hook too.

 

[The Little Raven]

Waterwalk? You're likely to cast that on the entire party in order to overcome an obstacle.

With an average of 5 party members, you'll be spending 50 minutes casting the ritual 5 times, 100 gp on components, and the first casting will have 20 minutes left on the duration (and the second 30 minutes, and so on).

It's not a great group buff.

 

[Falling Icicle]

To those who don't think the Wizard's spellbook or Cleric's ritual book should be free, quoting the item's chapter about how the gold character's start with is an abstraction, let me just ask you this: should the Wizard and Cleric have to pay for their starting rituals out of their starting gold as well? If your answer to this is yes, they should, then I'd like you to explain to me how a Wizard affords a 50g spellbook plus 150g worth of rituals as a 1st level character! If your answer is no, the rituals are free, then please explain to me why those should be free but not the books that are required to hold them!

If spellbooks are free, how the heck is a Wizard supposed to spend 100 gold? The big ticket items are military weapons, armor, and... spell books.

(Well, maybe it's an opportunity to stock up on Journeybread, or whatever it's called.)

As a matter of balance, it makes more sense to me that the Wizard needs to purchase the book (and I'll have to check my notes, but I think I've already made one player pay for such).

How is a Wizard supposed to spend gold? How about on ritual components so that he can actually use those 3 rituals he starts with? At a minimum of 10g a pop, those get expensive. My 1st level Wizard spent 50g of his starting money on ritual components.

 

[azarias]

I'd like to say there's no discussion here, but plainly there is...

Anyway, I'll dive in and say it: there is no discussion here. The spellbook is free. You may not like CustServ, but that's the best errata on the fact we've got so far, and they've been absolutely clear on the matter.

Besides that, it's illogical to make the casters pay because the book doesn't only contain rituals, ie:

For all those arguing against and considering only rituals, remember that the spellbook also contains the Wizard's dailies and utilities. Could these folks please explain how they would arbitrate a Wizard who chooses not to spend half their starting funds on a spellbook? Would you force that PC to adventure without dailies, utilities, or rituals? Or would you force him to spend the money?

If the former, then you are hamstringing not only the PC, but the entire party.

If the latter, then you are giving the Wizard only half the starting funds available to any other character.

A knotty choice. Fortunately, the text - and the best WotC response we have so far - strongly suggest that it isn't a problem. The spellbook is free for those who gain it as a class feature.

Footnote: chainmail proficiency is free (and prereq free) a Cleric or Warlord. Nowhere does it spell out that you don't need to meet the prereqs if you have that feat as a class feature. Does an 8 Str Cleric get chainmail proficiency? Yes he does. It's a class feature: the general rules (gold cost in our main case, prereqs in this) don't apply.

 

[DreamChaser]

4e paradigm

rule + exception = truth

Rule A = All starting members of a class gain the class features of that class
Rule B = spellbook / ritual book cost 50 gold
Rule C = wizards get a spellbook as a class feature
--------
Because of A and C, Rule B must be excepted for this situation.

DC

 

[Baron Opal]

If I club a wizard over the head and take his spellbook, I get access to the rituals. Do I also get access to the daily powers?

Assuming I'm a wizard, of course.

 

[Lurker37]

I'd say not, due to the simple fact that there are no rules for learning other wizard's spells. Furthermore, when a wizard upgrades a spell to spell from a higher level (which starts happening around paragon tier), the lower level one vanishes from their spellbook.

This isn't a 3.X spellbook.