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"You possess a spellbook."

garyh

First Post
Question - do 4e wizards get their first spellbook free? The way it's phrased on page 158 sounds like you do, but doesn't say so explicitly. I know they did in 3.x, so I assumed they did in 4e as well, but then I read it closer and couldn't tell. Other thoughts that occurred to me:

Free book - lets wizards have leftover GP to cast a few rituals.

Paying for spellbook - puts them on par with folks buying armor and fancy weapons.

Anyone have a definite answer?
 

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Mistwell

Legend
I think they get it free. At least one other person here thinks they do not (and while I disagree with them I felt they made a reasonable argument for why they cost money).
 

fba827

Adventurer
spellbook and ritual book for free.
:)
that's my take on it (and i believe there is a wotc customer service email cut and pasted on to these boards somewhere that says that, but can't find the source so nothing other than my opinion right now)
 

Byronic

First Post
spellbook and ritual book for free.
:)
that's my take on it (and i believe there is a wotc customer service email cut and pasted on to these boards somewhere that says that, but can't find the source so nothing other than my opinion right now)

Except of course that for Wizards spell and ritual book are one and the same.
 

cdrcjsn

First Post
spellbook and ritual book for free.
:)
that's my take on it (and i believe there is a wotc customer service email cut and pasted on to these boards somewhere that says that, but can't find the source so nothing other than my opinion right now)

slight nitpick, but their Spellbook IS their ritual book. They don't get two books for free.
 

fba827

Adventurer
Err that's what I get for fast typing without checking myself ... or at least I will blame it on careless typing regardless of whether or not that is the actual cause ....

i meant to say

"spell and ritual book" not spellbook and ritual book.. :)
 
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I've posted this before and I still think it's unfair for non cleric and non wizards to not get something worth 50 gold that their class would use. Just doesn't make sense to me.
 

DreamChaser

First Post
I've posted this before and I still think it's unfair for non cleric and non wizards to not get something worth 50 gold that their class would use. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I'd assume that this is worked into the class balance, since gold is so closely balanced out by level now.

Perhaps that is why neither class has the equivalent of "rogue tactics"

DC
 

I don't quite follow what a class feature has to do with two classes starting with 50 gold extra worth of gear. I'm not saying that the wizard or cleric shouldn't have the ritual book to start, just that other classes should start with something worth 50 gold since that is 50 percent of starting funds.
 


Byronic

First Post
I don't quite follow what a class feature has to do with two classes starting with 50 gold extra worth of gear. I'm not saying that the wizard or cleric shouldn't have the ritual book to start, just that other classes should start with something worth 50 gold since that is 50 percent of starting funds.

Well, the Fighter and the Paladin have ridiculously cheap armour.

Oh wait, here's something. Rituals are usually used for the whole party. And unless the party has some separate funds especially for making rituals that benefit the party as a whole (rather then the Wizards voyeuristic eccentricities for example) the wizard gets to spend his own money.

So I really don't see how this really benefits the wizard at all. At most he wouldn't lose money, but most of the time he'll simply be paying for his spellbook for the rest of his career :p
 
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tglord0001

First Post
KoTS Wizard

If the KoTs Wizard is to be taken as an example then NO they do not come free.

Wand 7g
Quarterstaff 5g
Pack 15g

27g Total

+50g Spellbook = 77g leaving 23g (what wizard has in KoTS)

Edit: Yes i realize some of the other characters in KoTS don't come out this way.
 
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PHGraves

First Post
:erm:

...and for those of you looking behind the "4E RAW vs RAI" tour bus, you will now see the line.


Some of these discussions have been intriguing, the myriad answers from CS have been eye-opening, but this is ridiculous. Were 4E a television show, I would be scanning the credits to see if Ted McGinley joined the cast.

Giving Wizards/Clerics Spell/Ritual books for free at character creation.
Argument against:
While it says that you "possess" these books, it does not explicitly say that you "start with" them.

Arguments for:
The class feature section also states that your books come with... No.
I just cannot take this seriously.

They are free at creation to Wizards/Clerics.
Believe what you will, interpret it how you want.
The only person I will take seriously in regards to this argument is any player in my game that is creating a Wizard or Cleric. I will allow them to pay for their books if they so choose..
 

Lurker37

Explorer
Customer service says "Yes, both the spellbook and the three rituals are free."

Think about it guys: if a wizard has spend 50g on their book then there's no way to buy one ritual, let alone three, with 50g. If they got the rituals for free, then we assume they learnt them during training. This being the case, then at the time they learnt them they had to have a book to write the ritual into. Furthermore, this also applies to the wizard daily and encounter spells. It's not an optional piece of equipment - their class features simply don't work without the book.

It's not even a question of money. Given the three free rituals, throwing in the free book is trivial by comparison.

The reason there's a listed cost for these books is
a) so other classes who take the ritual caster feat can buy them,

and b) because there's limited space in those books so anyone who invests heavily in learning rituals will need more than one.

The wizard equipment spending in KoTS is just another error - there's a disappointing number of them, it seems.
 
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am181d

Adventurer
If spellbooks are free, how the heck is a Wizard supposed to spend 100 gold? The big ticket items are military weapons, armor, and... spell books.

(Well, maybe it's an opportunity to stock up on Journeybread, or whatever it's called.)

As a matter of balance, it makes more sense to me that the Wizard needs to purchase the book (and I'll have to check my notes, but I think I've already made one player pay for such).
 

I agree that the wizard and cleric should start with the relevant books. I just also happen to think that the rest of the characters should get something near the same value. It doesn't make sense that they get 50 extra gold effectively.

A paladin needs plate mail. Scale mail for fighters. So on and so forth.
 


Mistwell

Legend
If spellbooks are free, how the heck is a Wizard supposed to spend 100 gold? The big ticket items are military weapons, armor, and... spell books.

(Well, maybe it's an opportunity to stock up on Journeybread, or whatever it's called.)

As a matter of balance, it makes more sense to me that the Wizard needs to purchase the book (and I'll have to check my notes, but I think I've already made one player pay for such).

A primary ability for spellcasters is casting rituals.

All rituals cost a lot of gold.

Just being able to cast the three rituals you get for free ONE time would cost 30gp.

I think that is where the gold is supposed to be spent, and why the book is free.

I agree that the wizard and cleric should start with the relevant books. I just also happen to think that the rest of the characters should get something near the same value. It doesn't make sense that they get 50 extra gold effectively.

A paladin needs plate mail. Scale mail for fighters. So on and so forth.

If every time a paladin or fighter wanted to use one of the primary abilities then needed to spend gold for it, I would agree.

Paladins and fighters don't need to spend money like spellcasters do for rituals. I think it's balanced fine. If anything, I think a lot of folks think the spellcasters got the worst end of the deal.
 
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SableWyvern

First Post
I find it rather ludicrous to expect a clericc to drop 50gp just so that he can start the game with Gentle Repose and one extra first level ritual. If you're going to enforce such a ruling, then just about every cleric in his right mind will simply forgo his starting rituals.
 

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