You win some, you lose some

[SnowleopardVK]

My players suffered their first total loss tonight and they're mad at me. Very mad. Which raises the question of how people deal with sore losers?

I opted not to kill them. Next week they'll be waking up in prison and by then I'll have reworked this dungeon into an 'escape from prison' scenario, which I think was kind of me considering they were beaten by an enemy who was ordered to assassinate them and by all means they should have been TPK'd.

I digress though, what does one do to help soften the blow of telling the players "sometimes you lose"? Especially when they're not accustomed to loss.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I think this is a big part of the social contract in a group. In my group people expect to die occasionally and know neither DM will totally pull their fat out of the fire if worst comes to worst. You group might be mad if they thought that a TPK was not a possibility at your table.

Sounds like you need to discuss it next week.

 

[Treebore]

If it was understood defeat and death was possible, and they died due to the dice being against them, or they made bad choices, or both, leave their PC's dead.

Do what MILLIONS of their predecessors have done, roll up new characters and game on.

Now if you screwed up, sounds like your coming up with a decent way to do it over and continue on with their PC's.

 

[Treebore]

As to how to get them to not be such sore losers? They have to grow up, and you can't do that for them.

Besides, hopefully as the week goes on they will get it into perspective, and game on.

 

[Kzach]

I would never kill the characters; the players, however...

 

[Rune]

What were the particular details leading up to this TPK? Were the PCs completely outmatched? Was it just bad luck? Was there no opportunity to escape once it became clear that they needed to?

If the PCs were outmatched, and they wanted to escape, but couldn't, bringing them back would be the right thing to do (although I would--and have--made it a major plot point in the campaign).

If they chose not to run away when they had the chance, or the dice really had it out for them, I'd say roll a new set of characters up. In the first case, the tales of the party can serve as a lesson to future adventurers. In the second case, clearly fate has plans, and they don't include those PCs.

If you're worried about this situation coming up again, however, I strongly suggest you consider some sort of plot-protection mechanic (such as the action points that Trailblazer uses) that, when used judiciously, will pretty much eliminate the threat of TPKs (but not necessarily character death).

 

[SkredlitheOgre]

For my few groups, death is one of those things that's possible, but it still takes the players by surprise. I think they mostly don't like it because they've become attached to their characters.

Only one guy (a 3.5 campaign) has been a "sore loser" so far and really, it was his own fault, as he decided to attack someone who was supposed to give the group information even though I had talked about how powerful this person was. He couldn't believe he lost, even when I showed him the character stat block, which was a full 10 levels higher than his own. He was even more upset that the rest of the party didn't help. He and I actually had a pretty tense discussion after the session about how the NPC "shouldn't have been able to kill him" due to him being a PC. I tried calmly explaining that the PC stepped over a very clearly placed line and refused to back down, even when it was obviously he was outclassed. The player didn't "get it" and when he took his turn at DM, he tended to target my PC more often than anybody else out of a group of 7 players. I just laughed it off. Funny how he and I haven't talked since that group ended.

We had our last party member death (PF Rise of the Runelords) at our second to last session (we haven't played at all in April due to conflicting schedules). The player got smashed by a stone giant's club/hammer thingie and splatted on the floor. His entire response was "Oh, but I like that character!" At which point he grabbed his dice and a clean character sheet and started over.

 

[Squire James]

Some players dislike imprisonment or item loss even more than character death, so the prison scenario is not always the right choice. I don't know the exact circumstances of the TPK, so I will assume they died due to bad luck in a more-or-less fair fight.

I'd give each one of them the choice of (1) their character dies, or (2) the character is imprisoned and should plan to lose all their wealth temporarily and some percentage of it permanently (unless they recover said wealth from their assassin's corpse later on). There should be SOME permanent consequence for failure, and you can take this opportunity to "take back" any items you regret letting them obtain.

 

[SnowleopardVK]

What were the particular details leading up to this TPK? Were the PCs completely outmatched? Was it just bad luck? Was there no opportunity to escape once it became clear that they needed to?

Four 6th level PCs faced five 4th level NPC monks while the leader of the monks (7th level) looked on invisibly. They won against the regular monks, staying up but all were low-ish on HP. The leader then revealed herself suggesting that they surrender and pointing out that they were injured and she was significantly more skilled than the ones who'd injured them. They immediately attacked her and got beaten unconscious for it. Retreat was never considered, though they could have managed it easily enough.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A famous Bard once said...

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run