Your archer tactics (not necessarily smackdowns)

[Kannik]

All this recent talk about archers and whether they are overpowered or not makes me wonder how people play archers for maximum effect. Note that I don't mean smackdowns per se; but instead, how do you place yourself in battle outdoors, or in dungeons? How do you keep opponents from closing? If the opponents start real close, where do you go and what do you do? What basic magic items help? That sort of thing... Just looking for the stuff that works at low level, not whether one should take 5 prestige classes later on }:> Though hearing which of the prestige classes (one, not in combination) you feel is good wouldn't be bad either...

At any rate, a long-winded way to introduce an open question that simply boils down to: starting an archer character, how do you play them effectively? }:>

Thanks,

Kannik

 

[WattsHumphrey]

My current archer is a cleric. Though I feel that fighters and their prestige classes can do more damage, they have a tough time against DR without Greater Magic Weapon.

As far as the cleric goes, the bab isn't that great, but GMW and the cleric buffs (cat's grace if you take the elf domain) should compensate somewhat. Additionally, persistant Divine power at higher levels makes the low bab not a problem.

So at lower levels, I'd still go for the basic archery feats (point blank, rapid) though perhaps modified to allow for Zen Archery. Taking that front-loaded 1 level in Templar may be a good idea for Weapon Spec.

As for items, bracers of archery and ioun stones of spell storing are my favs. If you have (or can hire) a ranger that can cast Hunters' mercy, that's great in the stone, or else some true strikes (or the ones from the elf domain again ). A mighty bow with bulls strength is good. Divine Favor is good (and better persistant).

The heavy armor that the Cleric or Fighter can wear is good, but puts you at a mobility disadvantage, so Shot on the Run or boots of Fly are also useful.

 

[Steverooo]

Lower-level archers

At lower levels, go for range and variety...

Remember that "archery" doesn't just mean bows! My archer carried a COmposite Longbow at first level, even though it was expensive, simply because of the increased base range. It was third level before he could afford a Masterwork Mighty Composite Bow, and when he added +1 STR at fourth, he had to buy a new one! Anyway, at low levels, also carry a FREE sling and a few rocks, as well. You'll normally use the bow, but the sling works with skeletons.

Now, at seventh level, he uses two Quivers of Ehlonna. he has 20 silver arrows (just in case!), and 100 Masterwork. MW Arrows are cheap, compared to most items, and the +1 to hit stacks with the bow's!

If the GM will let you, buy some "dumdum" (blunt) arrows. If not, buy a MW Sling, to get rid of the -1 to-hit with slung rocks. Sling bullets (unless magical) aren't worth it, at half a pound apiece!!!

Also, I am having great effect with thrown Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fire, and Acid. In the current battle, my Ranger was in a group that was charged by a boar-headed cyclops giant while dazed... He was the first to come out of it, so made an aimed attack at the critter's one eye. Unfortunately, the GM ruled he needed +10 BAB (at seventh level) to hit it, so he did minor damage. It charged, but didn't reach him. Next round, he tangled it, but it rolled EXACTLY the number it needed to break free! Fortunately, two more PCs came around before it closed to five feet, and we were able to finish it off.

(As for closing to attack, I don't worry about that, using a buckler and a pair of spiked gauntlet-type weapons).

Next, he spotted "a large humanoid" in a nearby building. It moved down, and sent in the Lizardfolk reinforcements to attack, while hanging back in the shadows. My PC spotted it, and let everyone know it was a Troll with a Wand/Rod (it had gained surprise and fireballed some of us). He then tossed in two Alchemist's Fires to keep it busy, and took cover.

Unfortunately, our party was scattered, and did more of the same. The Troll forgot trying to cast while burning, and went to melee. Knowing it was a Troll, a spellcaster hit it (and a lotta Liz) with Acid Breath. Meanwhile, my PC Hid and Moved Silently with the -5 penalty to move up on the meleeing Troll's flank, getting one hit with a vial of Acid. The Fighter and Paladin downed it, then ran off!

I moved up, either to Coup de Grace it (if within five feet), or else hit it with more acid and then Coup de Grace it the round after, if not within five feet.

So, as you can see, Thunderstones, Smokesticks, etc., can be effective as low-level replacements for magic items. Masterwork Mighty weapons are also nice. Magic, of course, is even better!

My poor PC has never even seen a magic bow nor arrow, though!

 

[Darklone]

Ask your DM if you are allowed to use the Archer class variant from Sovereign Stone

You'll love it!

Keep climbing on things if you have time.

 

[Bagpuss]

Keep sticking arrows into it until it stops moving tends to be the general tactic our party archer uses.

 

[Kannik]

Keep sticking arrows into it until it stops moving tends to be the general tactic our party archer uses.

-grins- Sounds like a good plan }

Some good ideas here. Mobility sounds like a key (my character cannot climb, alas). I'd guess winning init and moving to an appropriate spot to minimize the potential for your foes to reach you (even with charge). Being the 'rear guard' fighter is probably also helpful in this regard (assuming most of your encounters occur from the front )

When/if/suppose someone does reach you -- do you tend to 5' step away and pincushion them from there? or do a double move to get some good distance, losing a turn but then being able to fire with less worry?

Or, drop a tanglefoot bag at their feet... }:>

I will be trying to do the archer thing -- taking the archer class out of Three Arrows for the King (which is essentially a slightly re-worked archer from Sovereign Stone, from what I gather), if the DM will allow it. }

And whenever we make it to town, those masterwork arrows would be good. Or making my own, if I can }

Thanks for the suggestions... keep 'em coming }

Kannik

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

For spellcasting archers:

Use mending to repair broken masterwork or silver arrows. No sense in spending more money than you have to.

In dungeon crawls, try spiderclimbing on the walls or flying in narrow passages to ensure that you have LOS to your enemies and aren't always firing through cover.

For cleric archers: Zen archery is a good feat but might not be necessary if you've a good dex and a cat's grace spell (elf domain). It's much more useful for human cleric archers with little or no dex bonus. (And for Order of the Bow Initiates who can stack it with their dex bonus).

 

[Steverooo]

Re: Lower-level archers

(As for closing to attack, I don't worry about that, using a buckler and a pair of spiked gauntlet-type weapons).

Get Spiked Gauntlets (PH) or Clawed Bracers (FRCS?), and when they move up, spike/claw them! They always threaten, can't be disarmed, don't have to be drawn, and don't interfere with your archery! Damage on Spiked Gauntlets is poor (I don't know what Clawed Bracers do).

Also, get a Masterwork/Magical Buckler (no Armor Check Penalty).

 

[0-hr]

Use mending to repair broken masterwork or silver arrows. No sense in spending more money than you have to.

Wow, great idea. Is there any reason you couldn't use this on magic arrows?

Mending repairs small breaks or tears in objects (not warps).
In metallic objects, it will weld a broken ring, a chain link, a
medallion, or a slender dagger, providing but one break exists.
Ceramic or wooden objects with multiple breaks can be invisibly
rejoined to be as strong as new. A hole in a leather sack or
wineskin is completely healed over by mending. The spell can
repair a magic item, but the items magical abilities are
not restored. The spell cannot mend broken magic rods, staffs, or
wands

For the cost of a zero-level wand, you can reuse 50 arrows!

"magical abilities are not restored" - but are the magical abilities of an arrow lost when it breaks? I would think it is just a broken "arrow +3" or whatever. Or is this trying to say that the magical abilities are dispelled when a broken magic item is mended?

If you sunder someon's magic sword, do they have to get it re-enchanted after it is repaired? If not, then the same should apply to arrows, which means mending should be fine for fixing up your broken magic arrows right?

 

[Rackhir]

For spellcasting archers:
In dungeon crawls, try spiderclimbing on the walls or flying in narrow passages to ensure that you have LOS to your enemies and aren't always firing through cover.

The spider climb is a good idea, but it would only work if you had slippers of spiderclimb. Since the spell only lets you have at most one hand free and requires bare feet, where as the slippers permit you to have both hands free. They are relatively inexpensive at 2k gp, but I would tend to try and aquire a Quiver of Elhona first unless you found getting above things to be mandatory. A Hewlets Handy Haversack might be a better choice at low levels since it's similar in price, but can permit you to carry a pretty much infinite supply of arrows (since the limitation is based on weight) and effectively removes your non-weapon/armor items from encumberance consideration.

I would say that aquiring a Mighty MW Composite bow is of paramount importance. Preferably as strong as possible, since you can always get your strength up through buffs. There are not that many options for increasing your damage with arrows until GMW become readily available and frequently even after they have the spell, casters will want to use the slots for other spells until they have slots to burn (MUCH later). So mighty bows are your primary source of addtional damage, especially since it isn't limited to the 30' range of many other bonuses (PBS,WS).

Quick Draw can be a handy feat for low level archers, since you will most likely have to engage in HTH on a regular basis. Also you are more likely to find magic weapons, than magic bows/arrows. So HTH may be your only option when engaging DR creatures.

Depending on your DM's take on cover. It might be highly advantagous to have a dwarven, hobbit or gnome front rank of meat shields. Since you ought to be able to fire over their heads at the enemies.

How to handle enemies who have closed depends on what your character is like. My last archer had excellent HP and a good strength. So he would just do the 5' dance with the enemy. If you have a low HP elf, with little strength. Then you might want to run away, but that usually is not a good option unless you have a either a large party to keep them distracted from you or nobody else to defend so you can make it into a running battle. Also there is usually only so far you can run.

Keep in mind that a 5' step is usually sufficient to get you an unobstructed LOS to a target, if not necessarily a specific one.

If you have good meat shields, try concentrating on taking out the enemies engaging them first. Helps keep them alive and foes out of your hair.

Unless your DM permits Multi-Shot. Do not bother with Shot-On-The-Run. An archers greatest strength is his ability to get off a full attack in most situation and you generally have to do one in order to inflict significant damage.

Unless doing so for RP purposes. Fletching is generally not cost effective to put Skill points into. It takes WAAYYY too long to make anything worthwhile. So it's useless unless your characters have long stretches of down time.

Consider a two handed weapon for melee. You probably aren't using a shield in any case. So you might as well go for a big damage dealer and take advantage of the Str bonus muliplier with THWs.

RE: The Buckler. If I understand things correctly (and I may well not - SRD seems to be down at the momen), while a MW Buckler does not have an armor penalty. You can not use it while using your bow, since you need to have the arm free to position it for defense.

That's about it for low level character that I can think of.