D&D 5E (2014) Your CR limit for an average 1st level party?

[Mull Ponders]

I tend to look at it a bit differently. An Orc with a great axe is 1/2 CR, but can down a party member with a single shot. A Carrion Crawler is CR 2, has a ton more HP, but is going to paralyze a party member and drag it back to it's lair to be eaten later, allowing a rescue. I look at possible outcomes more than CR ratings.

 

[Zardnaar]

CR 2 or 3 is pushing it. Accuracy isnt great and a crut can outright kill a OC with a ok to decent roll vs max damage or close to it.

Depends on monster as well.

 

[Koloth]

Be very careful with any critter that do AOE things like spells, breath weapons or similar. A 4 v 1 can become a 2 v 1, or worse, very fast once AOEs start going off.

 

[Zardnaar]

Be very careful with any critter that do AOE things like spells, breath weapons or similar. A 4 v 1 can become a 2 v 1, or worse, very fast once AOEs start going off.

Hell hounds 7d6 breath weapon iirc.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

My instinct says CR3 but I wonder if I am being too pessimistic...

My instinct is the same as yours.

You mentioned not downplaying the monster, which I think is important. Players sense when DMs are flubbing dice rolls and "bending" the game reality to fit a narrative. That's not terribly fun.

However, something I learned back in 3E is that it's possible to use monsters with much higher CRs than the average party level provided you significantly pair the monster down in power and have the reason for that pairing down be linked to the encounter environment or a larger plot element in the adventure/campaign arc.

For example, having a Glabrezu stuck/merged into the wall and floor of a failed summoning circle makes for an interesting dungeon room encounter. Maybe only its head, upper torso and fists are free to use; everything else is in the wall/stuck between realities. Does the Glabrezu attack and eat whatever wanders in? Does it try and make a deal if it encounters a spellcaster---especially a low level caster that could be taught how to cast more powerful magic in time? Would the creature's predicament by a puzzle that one or more PCs might want to solve?

I know this is beyond what you asked. Your inquiry just reminded me of some of the things I've done in past games to keep my players on their toes.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Level 1 characters are a bit more durable in 5.5 on average.
CR3 still seems dangerous. A quick search tells me that they deal 11 to 17 damage on average on a hit. Enough to down every non-martial/half-caster at least. And they have abilities to either increase that damage, do area damage or disable the PCs.

So my guess is that PCs should be able to handle it if they can chose how to fight but only with luck, if the CR3 creature more or less surprises them.

Chances for PCs to win increase dramatically if the spellcasters can hit them with disable like command or tasha's laughter or sleep.

 

[Zardnaar]

Level 1 characters are a bit more durable in 5.5 on average.
CR3 still seems dangerous. A quick search tells me that they deal 11 to 17 damage on average on a hit. Enough to down every non-martial/half-caster at least. And they have abilities to either increase that damage, do area damage or disable the PCs.

So my guess is that PCs should be able to handle it if they can chose how to fight but only with luck, if the CR3 creature more or less surprises them.

Chances for PCs to win increase dramatically if the spellcasters can hit them with disable like command or tasha's laughter or sleep.

CR 3 often has weak saves. Assuming PCs have picked those spells.

One wrong roll or ability youre looking at dead PCs or TPK.

RAW a larger party can encounter CR3 lvl 1 iirc. 700xp monster cant remember the xp budget off the top of my head.

They've buffed monsters a lot but you have the hp of 3E characters and not much more than 2E.

 

[Li Shenron]

Indeed, I've taken a second look at a few CR3 monsters and the main issue seems to be the damage they can do on a single lucky attack roll.

A single CR3 monster qualifies as a "deadly" encounter for 4 or 5 PCs of 1st level, while a single CR2 monster qualifies as "deadly" for 4 PCs and as "hard" for 5 PCs. But "deadly" sounds to me like an appropriate encounter for the ending of a an adventure, otherwise there is a good risk of an underwhelming finale. I've used "deadly" encounters all the time at higher levels, but admittedly it's been a few years since I DMed a 1st level game, and previously I did that only for beginners (of either 5e or D&D as a whole) which means I went very easy on the combat pillar.

Looking at some iconic monsters of CR3, their single-turn damage is just way too high, they seem very likely to kill a 1st level character, for example:

Mummy: average damage is 20, and that's actually enough to insta-kill anyone with 10hp (but also martial types who have lost about half their hp already); if it scores a critical, it rolls 10d6+3 and the average is 38, yikes!
Minotaur: average damage with greataxe is only slightly lower with 17, and this monster is harder to hit and has more hp than the mummy so it will last a longer number of rounds
Blue Dragon Wyrmling: average damage is 11 which is a lot better, but then obviously it has the breath weapon which averages 22 and hits multiple targets
Owlbear: two attacks averaging 10+14=24 meaning even worst than the mummy (OTOH its criticals are less random and average 39)

I consider the possibility of insta-kill a 1st level PCs due to massive damage the worst eventuality, because it doesn't give a chance to the rest of the party to save the fallen buddy. Average damage close to 20 is definitely way too risky... When I look at CR2 monsters, they seem to be well below that (except other Dragon Wyrmlings' breath weapons). Insta-kill can still happen on a crit or a lucky damage roll, but if it happens on an average damage roll then it sounds quite likely that it will happen

There's still however a few monsters at CR3 which seem to be less risky in terms of insta-kills. They have damage resistance though, which can make them last longer, so it's possible that their typical average encounter damage is on par with the previous, but still at least they don't insta-kill PCs unless they crit or roll luckily:

Werewolf: two attacks with average total between 10-13, but with possible lycanthropy curse
Wight: two attacks with average total between 11-12, but with possible max hp drain

 

[Tigris]

Sincelevel 1 is only meant for absolute beginners and experienced groups should start at level 3, I dont see why one would want to run anything above CR1 for the party.


Especially as a CR3 monster should be 3 times as strong as a CR1 monster with the extreme progression of the first 2 tutorial levels of 5e. The power progression is not linear.


Maybe one could try CR2, but that is already 2 times as strong as the party.

 

[aco175]

All the published modules seem to show a level 1 encounter being something like 2 goblins, or 2 bandits. This seems to show an encounter should not be more than a single cr1 monster as a hard encounter. Maybe cr2 as a deadly/max encounter.

Then again you also get one day of adventuring before you are 2nd level. This should be 3-5 encounters but can be just an ogre that you might all die from. Not sure if I would find that the best adventure design or the best DM design if it was forced on us.