Your ideal setting

[Jorunkun]

Silvercat,

I'm not entirely sure I fully get where you are coming from, but I'll try to answer anyway.

(...)To me there has to be an obviously "worth it" component of the world to save, and most gritty settings don't propose one as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't say that. I mean, from the characters' POV, the world is worth saving because it's the only one there is, and because maybe they feel they owe it to themselves to try and be "the good guy heroes" precisely because nobody else is making the effort.

My group has been playing D&D together for a long time, and this kind of intrinsic motivation for adventuring has proven to be more interesting (esp. wrt roleplaying) in the long term than explicit rewards like blowing up the Death Star to banish evil from the world forever more. Or, again and again.

And now I get why gritty doesn't work for me, at least in your terms: I love episodic story where it's really a series of separate events that are connected by common characters and places but not much by events.

I guess your mode of playing is more like, say, Star Trek. You've got a set of immediately capable heroes whop travel the unknown to encounter and oprevail in a huge breadth of challenges. Under this premise, gritty would be little more than an exercise in masochism, so I understand why it's not appealing to you.

Why do the multitude of elements need to make sense? (...) Aren't there things in the real world that you go through life not understanding? Why does a fantasy world have to be any different?

In a Star Trek like episodic setting, it doesn't. Long-term, deep internal consistency is only important for the heroes immediate world at the core of the story, the rest of the world is "just strange", that's why it's exciting to travel there.

My experience is that a gritty campaign benefits from emphasizing depth over breadth, and that only works if things are thought through. I could go an at length about why I think this is, but I need to go to work, so some other time maybe?

My question is thus: So you don't think there's any point in a setting that's simple and derivative? I need to know, because I don't have a contrasting opinion to balance it.

Well, you don't need anyone to tell you that the playstyle you like is badwrongfrun, do you? If simple and derivative works for you (as it does for what I reckon is the majority of roleplayers) ... enjoy.

J.

 

[Celebrim]

My question is thus: So you don't think there's any point in a setting that's simple and derivative? I need to know, because I don't have a contrasting opinion to balance it.

Oh, I'm quite willing to argue that a simple and derivative setting is ideal and that complex and non-derivative settings are bad, if all you need is a contrasting point of view.

The thing about a simple and derivative setting is that it would feel like it was designed to last a single campaign or single adventure. It would feel a bit disposable, and not like something that you'd want to revist alot.

But, that's ok.

A single memorable enjoyable campaign is doing pretty good by any homebrew setting and unless you are planning to publish the setting for a wide community the sort of detail that I just described would be absolutely wasted. In most cases, unless you love world building for world building's sake, you'd be better off focusing on creating the oppurtunity for story rather than on adding diversity to your world. Likewise, the more imaginative and inventive your setting, the more time you are going to spend in exposition just so your players will 'get it'. Especially if you aren't planning on publishing extensive source material, true inventiveness might end up being just an unwelcome distraction. You're better off having one single amazing thing, and then have the rest of the setting basically familiar and accessible.

 

[Desdichado]

You caught "gritty" just as I saw it that first time. And the thing about it is: this kind of stuff blows my mind. It shuts down. There's a certain amount of in-built hopelessness that acts like a black hole to my understanding. To me there has to be an obviously "worth it" component of the world to save, and most gritty settings don't propose one as far as I can tell.

Is "save the world" the only story you can tell?

Do only shiny happy worlds need saving? I liked the Black Company books quite a bit, for example, and they occupy a pretty nasty, brutish world.

And now I get why gritty doesn't work for me, at least in your terms: I love episodic story where it's really a series of separate events that are connected by common characters and places but not much by events.

:shrug: I've done episodic games in gritty settings before. In fact, a common complaint about some gritty settings (Midnight and CoC in particular) is that they're set up as one-shots rather than long-running campaigns, for instance.

I don't get it. Why do the multitude of elements need to make sense? I've always been very put off by peoples' insistence that everything in a fantasy world needs to tie into everything else in a way they can see. Aren't there things in the real world that you go through life not understanding? Why does a fantasy world have to be any different?

Because that's intelligent and engaging setting design. The players certainly don't need to understand everything, but if the GM doesn't, then it's just a bunch of willy nilly stuff.

The stuff I like, is either because 1) it's easier or more interesting for me to run personally, 2) it's more engaging to the players, or 3) both at the same time.

 

[Gears]

In light of the Special Hate some folks seem to have for it, I'm almost reluctant to admit that the Dream Setting I've been laboring on for some time now is.....

13th Century Europe.


Different Strokes and all that.

 

[Desdichado]

Huh? Who hates 13th century Europe?

I suspect a lot of fantasy fans probably think it's boring and, well, non-fantastic, but that's not Special Hatred; that's just apathy.

 

[Wombat]

In light of the Special Hate some folks seem to have for it, I'm almost reluctant to admit that the Dream Setting I've been laboring on for some time now is.....

13th Century Europe.


Different Strokes and all that.

Heck, I love me some later Plantagenets!

Ever looked at Ars Magica? It's set (nominally) in 1220.

 

[jaldaen]

Regardless of ruleset used (3.5, 4e, Pathfinder, GURPS, Unisystem, WoD... anything) what does your ideal fantasy setting look like?

My ideal setting looks like the Nevermore campaign setting for the True20 system, which is why I wrote it in the first place.

Why is it my ideal campaign setting?
1) It can be added onto almost any other campaign setting I need it to, whether it be an official campaign or a homebrew.
2) It in high fantasy based on myth, legends, and folklore.
3) I am also a huge fan of children's literature, especially the classics and this campaign setting allows me to work those elements into a comprehensive campaign setting.
4) The world encourages dynamic/cinematic combats with surreal and wuxia action.
5) If you can imagine it, it has a place in the world of Nevermore.

If you want to check out the Nevermore campaign setting, then feel free to check my sig for the appropriate links to its free Gazetteer, its products, and new blog

 

[sckeener]

I prefer cultures over races and usually use it to define my races.
My current game:

• Roman Empire (Everyone, but mostly Humans and Dwarves. Halflings are my getto race)
• Minoan (Dwarves)
• Norse (Frost Giants, Humans)
• Celts (Humans, Orcs, Half-orcs)
• Greeks (Halflings and Planetouched)
• Ancient Egyptian Empire (elves)
• Gypsies (Halflings)
• Sumerians (Humans - very first human civilization that broke off from Elvish enslavement - worships primarily demon lords

I prefer places of magically power.

• I lifted Regios from Ars Magica.
• It is also how I explain gates to other worlds. (Divine, Fiendish, Farrealm, Magic (positive), Faerie, Shadow, and the underworld are adjacent planes)

I prefer old worlds that have had a lot of history. Entire ages. The DM doesn't need to do anything more than a couple of lines for his notes, but I like the option that anything could turn up.
My brief notes for my current game

• The Beginning was pure
• Age of Oooze and Fungi
  In this age of little light, there were entire forests of Fungi
  The Age ended when a chunk of ‘the heavens’ fell to earth. Holy water and fire burned clear spots on the world.
• Age of Fish and Insects
  During this age Kuo-toa dominated the seas
  This age didn’t have a clear end and mostly just faded away
• Age of Reptiles and Birds
  Yuan-Ti. Yuan-Ti use to be pure reptile, but towards the decline of their civilization they looked into the future and saw man as the dominate race. Hoping to give their race a new lease on existence they preformed magical experiments to blend with that possible future. The experiment went horribly wrong and formed the Yuan-Ti as they are known (pure-bred, halfbloods, and abominations)
• Age of Giants and Dragons
  Jotun, true giants, banished to this world, ended the age of Reptiles and Birds with the help of true Dragons.
  Ymir’s blood flooded the world with humanoid children (man, orcs, ogres,
  Bergelmir, father of Frost Giants
  Surtr, father of the Fire Giants
  Sinmore, queen of the fire giants
  Menglad, giantess, lives in Gastropnir
  True dragons had come during the age of Reptiles, but had remained aloof from their petty conflicts until the Jotun beseeched them
  The Children of the Jotun were deformed in the eyes of Jotun. When the lesser humanoids races were born via the blood of Ymir, the Jotun ruled all lesser races (thus excluding Dragons and fey races) like parents.
  Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, and other fey folk formed civilizations free of Jotun rule.
  • Age of elves (and gith)
    The first elvish nation rose in a stable land with a river that flooded (aka Egypt). They enslaved other races believing they could govern the other races better than they could tend themselves.
    Gith enclaves formed near a portal to the plane of Limbo. Githyanki came from the Astral to spy on the Githyanki. They built castles. The Githzerai built monasteries near the portal. Dominance of the region would switch over the centuries between the Gith. However on one storm tossed night the limbo portal was destroyed and the adult Gith (both Githyanki and Githzerai) disappeared. The generation that survived did not speak of the cataclysm. Future generations came to regard the world as their home.
  • Age of men
    The first city states of man rose from a rebellion against elves. The first city states were similar to Sumerian cities
    Important notes from this time
    Samar is the oldest and most powerful of the Sumerian City states.
    Kingdom of Cor - A noble monarchy
    Triumvirate of Sakris - 3 powerful men (and later their families) came to rule a mercantile empire
    Witch Wars - Blamed for the Age of the Dead. Terrible magical wars. It ended with the Age of the Dead.
  • Age of the Dead. Durring the year of the Amethyst Comet, Undead swept the land of Man toppling all the civilizations of man except the oldest
    Krulum, City state of the dead. Arch mages looking at the destruction of the world joined the dead (liches) and founded a city for the dead. They moved the city after the comet’s influence waned to one of the areas where bits of meteorites had fallen. In that area, life reanimates as zombies (stats as flesh golems.)
  • 2nd Age of Man
  
  Notes over all the ages
  Demon Lords that have been interesting in this world are listed below. None of them have left the world completely.
• Juiblex and Zuggtmoy fought during the age of Ooze and Fungi
• Dagon pushed out Juiblex from the seas during the age of fish and insects
• Obox-ob pushed out Zuggtmoy during the age of fish and insects
• Demogorgon, Pazuzu, Sch'theraqpasstt, and Sess'Innek fought during the age of reptiles and birds
• Demogorgon and Pazuzu survive in cults into the age of man.
• Kostchtchie came to the world when the Age of Giants was ending. Giants had degenerated into separate groups with many of the frost giants joining Kostchtchie
• Malcanthet, Graz'zt, Fraz-Urb'luu entered the world with man.
• Orcus - entered during the Age of the Dead

I like having saints in the game over gods. So my gods are remote if they exist. Most of the Regios have a saint associated with them. Sometimes multiple Saints are associated with the same regio, but it just depends on how they are accessed.

Lots of ruins from all the ages.

Factions. I love Planescape and Ptolus and lift politics heavily from them.

Plenty of dens of iniquity.

• My Sumerian cities have plenty since they primarily worship demon lords.
• but I also have my Scuttlecoves
• My drow - decedents of Set- would probably qualify too
• every large city has them

(I'll edit later if I think of anything else)

 

[Gears]

Heck, I love me some later Plantagenets!

Ever looked at Ars Magica? It's set (nominally) in 1220.

Yes indeed. I've accumulated quite a stack of ArM books as reference material. They're a godsend for this project! Green Ronin's Medieval Player's Manual has given me some great ideas as well.