Your opinion of Pactmaking from Tome of Magic

[SpiderMonkey]

I just got it, and I'm really interested in adding Pactmaking to the campaign I'm working on. I really like the flavor of it, but I'm not sure what to make of the mechanics.

I also wish there was a way to make Pactmaking a bit more like the paradigm established by Moorcock's Elric stuff: you have a patron vestige throughout your career. I'm not sure how I'd do this (different vestiges as servants of a greater one?).

What are your thoughts on it?

 

[BlackMoria]

If you check on the prestige classes in the Binder chapter, there are several prestige classes which are focused on a particular vestige and you can use those as an idea of doing up your own PrC for whatever vestige you want. A PrC would be the best way to approach the concept of a patron vestige.

I rather like the Binder best out ot the three magic sub-systems in the book. My experience with the class so far has been limited but most people like the class and there have been very few complaints about balance, etc....

 

[Thomas Percy]

You can sign a pact with various vestiges, even four at once.
From the mechanics point of view a pact with the vestige is like possesing magic item containing a lot of abilities (e.g. staff of power or legacy item).
You can choose every day that vestige that suits your planned adventure, e.g. if you plan to marry, you can sign a pact with the vestige granting a lot of Charisma based abilities.

 

[lukelightning]

If you want to do a "patron vestige" thing that's really easy. All you have to do is change the fluff: All the vestiges are actually one being; make up a name like, um, Lukelightning. When you want Lukelightning to grant you his horns and fire breath, he grants you use Amon's powers; when you want Lukelightning's bite attack you bind Chupoclops, etc.

You could rename the vestiges things like "Horns of Lukelightning" (Amon), "Breath of Lukelightning" (Focalor), "Lukelightning's Glory" etc.

 

[Voadam]

If you want to do a "patron vestige" thing that's really easy. All you have to do is change the fluff: All the vestiges are actually one being; make up a name like, um, Lukelightning. When you want Lukelightning to grant you his horns and fire breath, he grants you use Amon's powers; when you want Lukelightning's bite attack you bind Chupoclops, etc.

You could rename the vestiges things like "Horns of Lukelightning" (Amon), "Breath of Lukelightning" (Focalor), "Lukelightning's Glory" etc.

The reason for the various influences then?

I found the changing of fluff a bit daunting. This is a good idea though for making it all one.

 

[Voadam]

I like the binders a lot and the vestiges are pretty cool. My biggest complaint is that all binders are going to be fairly similar mechanically with the same flexible choices every day, similar problems to the divine casters choosing every day from every spell on their list.

Not bad for an individual PC or NPC.

 

[Felon]

I also wish there was a way to make Pactmaking a bit more like the paradigm established by Moorcock's Elric stuff: you have a patron vestige throughout your career. I'm not sure how I'd do this (different vestiges as servants of a greater one?).

What are your thoughts on it?

I think your take on aspects is what I and many others expected. This modular "aspect of convenience" approach to the class leaves me cold, especially considering that the aspects are, by and large, very eclectic and don't fit into any kind of shema. I also think it's conceptually off-putting to other players to see you a goat-horned fire-breather one day and a clown in a ballerina outfit the next day, or what have you.

OTOH, that same flexibility is the class's only real asset. It's very tepid overall. While it's nothing I'd introduce into my campaign intentionally, I can't see any reason why I'd say "no" to a player who was excited about experimenting with a binder.

 

[Nalfeshnee]

well im currently running a planescape campaign and one of the characters is a Binder 3/Rogue 3 who almost exclusively binds Paiamon... his Dex (and initiative, especially) is off the chart and he's a good fighter, despite the self-imposed limitaion about only binding paiamon.
though i think the binders strength is in his versatility - one day he can have +10 hp and be great with heavy armour. the next he can have good saves and sneak attack, and then again he can be good at dispelling and using spell completion items. though i think a class variant for binders who devote themselves to one vestige (rather than prestige classes, tat can only be taken at higher levels) should be available for those less hore-like binders.
but the Tenebrous Apostate has to be one of my all time favourate prestige classes. on the whole i think that the binder offers a lot as a class, which is more than i can say about some of these lukewarm attempts im seeing recently.

 

[Psion]

My opinion is:

Mechanically, probably the most playable entry in the book.

Conceptually, it's not quite what I expect out of pact magic. I found Second World's pact magic much more intriguing, and, at the same time, representative of what I think of when I think of pact magic. The vestiges bit feels a bit tacked on to me.

But I would gladly use the class in Scarred Lands, where the concept makes so much sense, it hurts.

 

[Graf]

But I would gladly use the class in Scarred Lands, where the concept makes so much sense, it hurts.

As a servant of the titans or something else?