Your Ruling: Magical Sleep

[Umbran]

If they fall, the impact should wake them, therefore, they clearly do not fall.

Name a place where being knocked prone, in and of itself, does damage.

 

[Umbran]

Especially in a fantasy setting, where sleep magic is likely to exist, few worthy opponents can be dispatched easily while sleeping. They simply aren't that feeble.

And that is modeled by how the Sleep spell only handles so many hit points worth of creature - few worthy opponents can be dispatched his way, until you've already spent time beating them to a pulp.

 

[the Jester]

Sleep spells, also known as "the monster stops defending itself" spells. Are they always 1st-level spells? Why? Should the level be higher?

No. You can upcast it. Also, spells like hold person are other examples of "the monster stops defending itself" spells.

The fifth edition of Sleep doesn't grant a saving throw, and the target "falls unconscious." That could end the spell pretty quickly, if the target was standing up when it fell asleep. Isn't falling on your face (or worse, your weapon) worth 1 point of damage?

Do you rule that being shoved prone also inflicts damage?

My version of Sleep is a little more gentle on the recipient: "the target lays down and goes to sleep." But both can leave a villain vulnerable to a coup de grace, no?

There is no such mechanic in 5e; as others have stated, you have advantage on attacks on a sleeping creature, and you get an automatic critical hit while within 5' of it. And then it wakes up. All in all, I would say that's about right for a 1st level spell. I think the problems you are positing only arise if you don't actually follow the rules regarding falling prone and unconsciousness.

If they fall, the impact should wake them, therefore, they clearly do not fall.

Only if falling prone deals damage, which- in all cases other than falling 10' or more- the rules don't support. Remember, this is magical sleep; it takes actual damage or someone vigorously shaking you to wake you while under the influence of the spell.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Ok, I think that this deserves a more elaborate reply from me. So, in the OP, the scenario is why even at low level boss fight should have legendary saves and actions. A lone boss is screwed by the action economy anyway.
Once asleep I would allow an autokill unless the party are engaged with allies of the sleeping. I believe this is justified in the narrative. Sleep is powerful enough to keep one sleeping even in the presence of the noise of a melee combat. I do not think I could sleep through a sword fight in my bedroom and I am a pretty sound sleeper. It is a first level spell, not usually upcast much and generally they are mooks anyway let the party have their moment of glory.
If a caster wants to burn a 9th level slot on sleep, all I can say, is that is a brave choice.

If you want an encounter where sleep, Tasha's, Edvard's or whatever to not count so much then legendary saves are your friend

 

[The Crimson Binome]

And that is modeled by how the Sleep spell only handles so many hit points worth of creature - few worthy opponents can be dispatched his way, until you've already spent time beating them to a pulp.

Yes, that's another reason why magical sleep isn't problematic in this regard. If the victim is so pathetic that they're susceptible to the spell in the first place, then the fight you're bypassing would not have been an interesting one.

 

[the_redbeard]

There's many reasons, especially the action economy, that lone boss encounters are are simply not going to be challenges for the PCs. Nerfing a player spell is a bad response.

The spell (especially looking at how it works in previous editions) clearly intends to put the targets to sleep regardless of their current position. The only way that I'd consider an exception that they might wake up from the fall would be if they had been flying and took falling damage.
As a player or DM, I'd say that any DM ruling that a target is awoken as a natural consequence of the spell is doing some egregious rules lawyering against RAI.

 

[GMMichael]

FYI - not a D&D thread, although D&D viewpoints are welcome.

Do you rule that being shoved prone also inflicts damage?

I wouldn't allow Shove Prone. Not in 5e anyway - it goes against the spirit of the game by reintroducing grappling-like rules.
Should it inflict damage? No - it's in line with the crumple that @aramis erak uses.
But if a D&D character is supposed to sustain 1d6 damage from a fall of 10 feet, it's fair to say that character's face sustains 1 point of damage from a fall of about 5-6 feet.

There is no such mechanic in 5e; as others have stated, you have advantage on attacks on a sleeping creature, and you get an automatic critical hit while within 5' of it. And then it wakes up. All in all, I would say that's about right for a 1st level spell. I think the problems you are positing only arise if you don't actually follow the rules regarding falling prone and unconsciousness.

5e: rulings, not rules. The problems also arise if you play a game other than D&D. Does anyone know how Cypher or Fantasy AGE handle it? I should know, I have both around here somewhere...

As a player or DM, I'd say that any DM ruling that a target is awoken as a natural consequence of the spell is doing some egregious rules lawyering against RAI.

Tell that to this guy.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Well, for starters that Danish soldier is falling asleep naturally. If 2 people started a sword fight behind him I suspect he would wake up also.

 

[aramis erak]

Well, for starters that Danish soldier is falling asleep naturally. If 2 people started a sword fight behind him I suspect he would wake up also.

I know a guy who fell asleep right beside the eric at an SCA war... during the fighting. Many folks can sleep through din and noise; almost every Samoan student I had could fall asleep with AC/DC blaring. Several nodded off during a school dance! Eskimo kids often can sleep right through a drum circle...

Don't underestimate the power of sleep to overcome noise.

I had a roommate who was narcoleptic (and an E2 in the USAF, until they figured it out). On several occasions he nodded off mid-sentence.

 

[aramis erak]

Name a place where being knocked prone, in and of itself, does damage.

You're being a nitpicker

Falling and being knocked prone are different functionally, based upon the common meanings of the words. Common use, fall implies lack of control. Knocked prone indicates potential for control by either party - Grappling can reduce your fall
Falling as a game term is a damaging relocation to ground lower than your starting point.
Being knocked prone, mechanically in D&D 5, does no damage as part of the being knocked prone, but it's not the same thing as falling. Falling does usually add the prone condition, however.

If one applies the rounding rule (D&D 5E PHB p.7) correctly, a Fall of <10' does no damage. (ibid., p.183) Which means a fall from horseback can't hurt one...

Litigiousness with D&D rules leads to narrative surreality appropriate for medieval super-heroes...