Your thoughts on warlocks

[ARandomGod]

Yeah, plus if a CE optimized Warlock meets a truly awesome paladin with a powerful holy avenger, he's not going to last that long, no matter HOW many eldritch blasts he gets off. (Especially so if he using the following sources: Player's Guide to Monks and Paladins, Quin Paladin II, and of course any and all Malhavoc d20 stuff.) Oh if said paladin is also a Justicar of Tyr or even a dwarven paladin/hammer of Moridin, kiss his butt GOODBYE!

Actually, the party he defeated included a paladin as it's leader. Of course, as said earlier he got to go first (he won a surprise round but not an initiative). And he who goes first goes best. Also he got to choose his time/place. Ambushes give a significant advantage. But it was the first "encounter" for the day for the ambushed party.

I'm pretty sure the paladin wasn't using all those sources, as we were restriced to "core and Complete X" in that campaign.

One important fact: Bewitching Blast and Bewitching Chain and Bewitching Spear and Bewitching Hideous Blow are blocked by a Globe of Invulnerability, while Bewitching Cone or Bewitching Doom is not.

Yea, he was using bewitching chain for a good while. It would have been blocked by a globe of invulnerability except that we rarely encountered opposition with that ability/spell selection. We did once, and the warlock was completely defeated in that encounter... but that was more due to the medusa gaze than the globe, which he never knew about (the character didn't. The player continued to watch after being stoned, of course).

Considering how rarely globes are seen, I'd rather say, this is a neglectable difference.

Bye
Thanee

Well, Thanee said it first (as usual). It's a good spell, sure. But the game style didn't pit us against intelligent spellcasters often.

 

[Nightfall]

ARG,

Probably seems like said paladin obviously DIDN'T use a lot of spells and/or feats allowed to him, to truly optimize himself against facing down a CE warlock.

But not sure I necessarily agree. Going first doesn't ALWAYS get you the win, but I'll agree, it can significantly increase your odds of winning. And yes, ambushes DO work more in the ambusher's favor than the ambushee's. Every good kobold and/or goblin knows this quite well.

Still think though, even with those factors, a truly good paladin, even one caught unawares, would have SOME way of taking down a warlock, EPECIALLY if he could get off say a Holy Word and/or Dictum scroll/spell.

 

[ARandomGod]

ARG,

Probably seems like said paladin obviously DIDN'T use a lot of spells and/or feats allowed to him, to truly optimize himself against facing down a CE warlock.

Of course he didn't. He was built to be a PC, so he took normal feats... and he didn't know that morning that he'd be facing a CE warlock, so he memorized what he thought would be appropriate.


But not sure I necessarily agree. Going first doesn't ALWAYS get you the win, but I'll agree, it can significantly increase your odds of winning. And yes, ambushes DO work more in the ambusher's favor than the ambushee's. Every good kobold and/or goblin knows this quite well.

Still think though, even with those factors, a truly good paladin, even one caught unawares, would have SOME way of taking down a warlock, EPECIALLY if he could get off say a Holy Word and/or Dictum scroll/spell.

Yea... well. I suppose he had a chance. It was mainly that he had a hard time doing just that. He actually fell to the bewitching blast several times, and the warlock was flying/invisible a lot, so he didn't get a lot of opportunities to target (or know where to target... )

The group would have had a much, much better chance if the wizard (actually arcane trickster) hadn't gone off to Ye Ol Magic Shoppe earlier.

Still, under different circumstances I don't debate that the paladin could have won.

 

[Nightfall]

ARG,

Probably but if he thinks "Gee I should prepare for facing evil!" he should try harder about it. I mean I know PLENTY of people (Well okay two actually but still!) that prepare the character for facing any situation. Well most any situation anyway.

True, but then that's the way things go. Some times you get the bear (or CE Warlock.) Some times the bear gets the paladin. But the Arcane Trickster decided to open up a shop instead of adventure?! Wow.

 

[Octal40]

Still, under different circumstances I don't debate that the paladin could have won.

Really? A flying Warlock?! I've played a paladin and they don't get ANY ranged abilities.

 

[Particle_Man]

Book of Exalted Deeds: Ranged Smite.
Holy Mighty Composite Long Bow.

 

[Thanee]

...permanacy blink spells...

LOL, that's not exactly useful in daily life.

Bye
Thanee

 

[kigmatzomat]

Really? A flying Warlock?! I've played a paladin and they don't get ANY ranged abilities.

My PHB says paladins get martial weapons, such as bows, and some of their low-level spells can be applied to bows and/or arrows. Branch out a little bit from the magic sword lifestyle and enjoy the physical and moral highground.

A flying warlock is no different from an arrowhawk or even archons; both can fly and have ray attacks. The difference is lots of casters can summon arrowhawks.

 

[Thanee]

A Paladin can also get a flying mount.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nightfall]

LOL, that's not exactly useful in daily life.

Bye
Thanee

Yeah well they are necromancers mostly. They don't give a crap about daily life as they are either a) wanting to kill off everyone else or b) wanting to become immortal in some fashion.


Also a paladin COULD be able to call on a celestial which CAN fly and thus hinder the warlock some while another party member with decent Dex and/or Max dex stuff, hauls out the ranged attacks.