Yuan Ti?

[jasamcarl]

There's one problem with specifying it to just creatures with classes, and that is that the Elite Opponents column isn't about just classes.

"Through the addition of class levels or templates, or even via simple HD advancement..."

So there is no particular connection between the 'elite array' - note that this is different from having any game term assigned to the phrase 'elite' - and the nature of the creatures in the column itself. I seriously doubt your assertion that the title of the column is a play on words to do with the elite array - I think it's referring to the more general term of elite. Now, if you can come up with some proof that they were referring to the 'elite array' in the title, I'd happily acquiesce to that, but I doubt that is the case.

The title is plainly referring to the elite array and other related options in advancing monsters. Most entries have the elite array, because most of the covered monsters advance 'by class'. That would be the proper interpretation given every entry in this column series. Elite both draws upon the elite stat array and expands it into related areas, i.e. being MECHANICALLY elite. How difficult is that to understand?

At this point, and in light of your blantant factual errors, I think you are being stubborn. But, I'll be sure to post a question to Richard Baker and see if he has a reply. As it stands though, I think my interpretation has more validity than yours given the actual content of the articles and the stated intentions.

 

[Eosin the Red]

And please, i've explained why this was a 'dumb complaint'...read further down the thread.

I must be REALLY dumb and you seem to be SO smart why don't you spell it out in simple mono-syllable words. I read your replies several times and I can see why someone so versed in the rules and on such a close basis with Rich Baker would find my complaint without merit but where exactly does it deserve the designator dumb? Please, enlighten me oh gifted one.

I think the use of freaky temples on creatures changes their very nature. I think that only a small minority of creatures posted on WotC should have templates. I think that I have a right to voice such a complaint and not have it ridiculed by someone who will "write to Rich Baker" for the answer. It blows my suspension of disbelief AS THE DM to see 40% of stated creates be half bread, fiendish, ooze, dire, lycanthrope, constructs. Done reasonably templates can be a good thing however, when an article presents 100% of ELITE opponents as having a template that changes them as far from the base creature as Frankenstien is from humans we have gone wrong somewhere. Freaky does not equal more interesting. Stats on websites are a blessing but not if they are all freaky...how many freaky on non-standard things does one person have in their game?

I used the WotC article but we can easily take a printed product and use it. RttoEE stands out in my mind as particularly bad. I think close to 1/3 of the creatures had templates. Why? To make them cool? Where do these creatures come from in such huge numbers? I have stories to explain dragons, gods, demons, and djinn, what is the story behind the multiple numbers of bizarre half breeds? Who breeds T-rexs and black dragons? How does that half ooze, fiendish troll come into being? Maybe there is a massive invasion of demonic cross breeders? If we busted out the Crook of Rao would the breeding stop?

Perhaps Elminster is unaware of the problem or it is the foul Night Parade behind this advanced science? We should contact the Harpers to see what they know if it can be put to an end?

Explain how a huge number of creatures are no longer reqular on an endimic cross planar scale? It is an invasion of game design gone wild. Used right it can be cool, but right now it is just a rampant epidemic that seems unstoppable.

I guess that probably seems dumb to such a gifted player as yourself and probably to Rich Baker as well. I apoloigise for boring your superior intellect with such minute drivel as how the hell all of this can happen. I look foward to your answer, please speak slowly so that my dumb brain can keep up.

 

[jasamcarl]

I must be REALLY dumb and you seem to be SO smart why don't you spell it out in simple mono-syllable words. I read your replies several times and I can see why someone so versed in the rules and on such a close basis with Rich Baker would find my complaint without merit but where exactly does it deserve the designator dumb? Please, enlighten me oh gifted one.

I think the use of freaky temples on creatures changes their very nature. I think that only a small minority of creatures posted on WotC should have templates. I think that I have a right to voice such a complaint and not have it ridiculed by someone who will "write to Rich Baker" for the answer. It blows my suspension of disbelief AS THE DM to see 40% of stated creates be half bread, fiendish, ooze, dire, lycanthrope, constructs. Done reasonably templates can be a good thing however, when an article presents 100% of ELITE opponents as having a template that changes them as far from the base creature as Frankenstien is from humans we have gone wrong somewhere. Freaky does not equal more interesting. Stats on websites are a blessing but not if they are all freaky...how many freaky on non-standard things does one person have in their game?

I used the WotC article but we can easily take a printed product and use it. RttoEE stands out in my mind as particularly bad. I think close to 1/3 of the creatures had templates. Why? To make them cool? Where do these creatures come from in such huge numbers? I have stories to explain dragons, gods, demons, and djinn, what is the story behind the multiple numbers of bizarre half breeds? Who breeds T-rexs and black dragons? How does that half ooze, fiendish troll come into being? Maybe there is a massive invasion of demonic cross breeders? If we busted out the Crook of Rao would the breeding stop?

Perhaps Elminster is unaware of the problem or it is the foul Night Parade behind this advanced science? We should contact the Harpers to see what they know if it can be put to an end?

How often do you use anything on the Wotc sites? Probably not often in a current game. But if I have yuan-ti, ogres, gnolls, kobolds, etc in any of those games, this feature has provided me with a good boss. What is posted

Explain how a huge number of creatures are no longer reqular on an endimic cross planar scale? It is an invasion of game design gone wild. Used right it can be cool, but right now it is just a rampant epidemic that seems unstoppable.

I guess that probably seems dumb to such a gifted player as yourself and probably to Rich Baker as well. I apoloigise for boring your superior intellect with such minute drivel as how the hell all of this can happen. I look foward to your answer, please speak slowly so that my dumb brain can keep up.

How often do you use anything on the Wotc sites? Probably not often in a current game. But if I have yuan-ti, ogres, gnolls, kobolds, etc in any of those games, this feature has provided me with a LIST of alternatives for a 'boss' encounter. These are options. Get over yourself, the portions of what's posted does not neccessrily reflect everything that is going on in your campaign, but rather what a large enough crossection of people NEED others to do for them. This is why you don't see much fluff published, despite the rp-heavy nature of many games. But i'm sure you find a way to fit every 'good' option into your game; yeah right.

And the snide Rich Baker allusion aside, I was only referencing his authority on the origin on the origins of the feature title. My main points are independent of that and stand clearly on their own, as demonstrated by your inability to address them in a logical manner. And I don't have to email him; he has an 'Ask Rich Baker' thread going on the wotc boards.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Its kind of funny that someone mentioned "Who would want to use a Yuan-Ti golem?" because I actually found a use for one in the last campaign I ran.

The main "behind the scenes" villians were Yuan-Ti in a FR campaign I was running. There was a civil war going on between the followers of Meershaulk and a splinter group near Mullhorand who started following Set. The PC's were undertaking adventures that were impacting one side or other in the struggle.

But I digress....I grabbed my "Isle of Dread" module off the shelf, and went about trying to tie in the Kopru as a sort of Galapagos Islandlike offshot of the Yuan-Ti. In order to tie them with the pure Yuan-Ti that had been on the island thousands of years ago I was going to have to have lots of undead that had been around that long. Sadly, thats lame. Then I hit upon the idea of filling one of the rooms in the Koprus's volcano lair with vats filled with Yuan-Ti Flesh Golems.

So, there you go, I actually DID have use for a Yuan-Ti golem.

DS

 

[Nightfall]

Yuan-ti have nothing on Assathi!

But they can be elite. Yuan-Ti that is.

 

[Eosin the Red]

How often do you use anything on the Wotc sites?
[SNIP]
My main points are independent of that and stand clearly on their own, as demonstrated by your inability to address them in a logical manner. And I don't have to email him; he has an 'Ask Rich Baker' thread going on the wotc boards.

Now dumb and illogical both. Wow, you are impressive. I am still waiting for you to spell out why the "complaint is dumb." You are so gifted and talented, I am sure that you have no need to appeal to authority explain to my poor dumb, illogicial self why this snide man's comments merit being called a dumb complaint. Please, remember to use small words. I don't know many of the bigger ones that you smart, logical people with friends in high places know. I am much less concerned about the templates = elite argument than I am into playing with the condescending, superior attitute that you think gives you the right to determine what is or is not a "smart" complaint. Apparently, my wit is much too low for you to miss that being the central point to two different posts. Maybe the next time I have to explain what I am after I will start it off with "speaking of dumb." Why don't you read what I have written.....I am sure my objective will become clear to one so bright as yourself.

However, beyond that I am still waiting for some answers on breeding and other explanations of how these things work other than "Dude, the are too kewl." If you don't think that I am too stupid to understand them?


PS - I use stuff on wotc with some reqularity but not as much as i'd like. Like modules and Dungeon I find much more than I can run on a regular basis even when I have a big pbem going.

PPS - I am glad someone got to use the golem but just like Frankenstien ain't a human, that write up ain't a Yuan ti but still, I am glad some people get some use from it.

 

[Phaoz]

off topic but Frankenstien was the doctor that created the monster, and was therefor very human

 

[Henry]

Guys, let's relax the mean-muscles, please.

(I got tired of using "let's be more civil" all the time. )

We can agree to disagree, without baiting or attacking.

Thank you.

 

[jasamcarl]

EDIT: Double post.

 

[jasamcarl]

Now dumb and illogical both. Wow, you are impressive. I am still waiting for you to spell out why the "complaint is dumb." You are so gifted and talented, I am sure that you have no need to appeal to authority explain to my poor dumb, illogicial self why this snide man's comments merit being called a dumb complaint. Please, remember to use small words. I don't know many of the bigger ones that you smart, logical people with friends in high places know. I am much less concerned about the templates = elite argument than I am into playing with the condescending, superior attitute that you think gives you the right to determine what is or is not a "smart" complaint. Apparently, my wit is much too low for you to miss that being the central point to two different posts. Maybe the next time I have to explain what I am after I will start it off with "speaking of dumb." Why don't you read what I have written.....I am sure my objective will become clear to one so bright as yourself.

However, beyond that I am still waiting for some answers on breeding and other explanations of how these things work other than "Dude, the are too kewl." If you don't think that I am too stupid to understand them?


PS - I use stuff on wotc with some reqularity but not as much as i'd like. Like modules and Dungeon I find much more than I can run on a regular basis even when I have a big pbem going.

PPS - I am glad someone got to use the golem but just like Frankenstien ain't a human, that write up ain't a Yuan ti but still, I am glad some people get some use from it.

Oh, I got the sarcasm..it just seemed completly irrelevant, so I took it at the flamebait it was. It seems you are unable to address my arguments and are simply lashing out.

And, you know, I don't want to address the fluff question with anyone who brings in the term 'science' to a discussion of DnD. Let's just say that Henry makes a valid point about disagreeing and move on, huh? I could come up with numerous explanations which would all boil down to 'magic', but i wouldn't want to endanger the civility of this forumby posting insults after Henry said the tone needed to change.

But even that is irrelevant. What is is your inability to see what's posted on the Wotc site as a series of options, and not monsters that must appear in your game. You use a templated creature as it seems appropriate to you. By your logic, every time a new book of undead is published, your campaign world becomes a necropolis.