Yuan Ti?

[jasamcarl]

As Skidace suggested, making the monster themselves more interesting and challenging through cunning tactics, unique set-ups and situations, and things like that, would be of far more use to me than another monster with some random template on it.

It's not an article about making yuan-ti into elite opponents, into enemies to be respected and feared. It's about turning them into something completely different by hurling templates at them, or occasionally just adding some class levels. It's something that takes little effort on the part of the writers, and is something I could do quite easily myself - if I suddenly wanted half-golem yuan-ti running around. If the article came up with ingenious tactics or ideas, or interesting concepts,, it'd be worthwhile reading for me.

It's about saving time for those who don't want to roll up stats for advanced monsters or for those who would like examples of what can be done. What you are asking for is totally different. That does not mean this article fails to do what it said it would do. 'Elite' has a very specific meaning in DnD. And quite frankly, i doubt very seriously that any article would be able to make the rp aspect of the monsters more evocative than a dm who knows his group and campaign.

I will say it again; fluff is easy or plentiful...mechanics are less intuitive and require more precision. That is why this is more useful for me, though that's beside to the point. That actual point is that you are foisting an irrational complaint on something that has utility for others because it doesn't meet you peculiar symantics on the word 'Elite'.

 

[Nifft]

I totally agree -- it'd be much more interesting to hear about how this advanced critter, or critter with a few levels in a class or two, is cooler than the sum of its parts.

The critters presented in "Elite Opponents" seem to be less cool than the sum of their parts.

-- N

 

[Tonguez]

As Skidace suggested, making the monster themselves more interesting and challenging through cunning tactics, unique set-ups and situations, and things like that, would be of far more use to me than another monster with some random template on it.

It's not an article about making yuan-ti into elite opponents, into enemies to be respected and feared. It's about turning them into something completely different by hurling templates at them, or occasionally just adding some class levels. It's something that takes little effort on the part of the writers, and is something I could do quite easily myself - if I suddenly wanted half-golem yuan-ti running around. If the article came up with ingenious tactics or ideas, or interesting concepts,, it'd be worthwhile reading for me.

The WoTC site also features 'Vicious Venues', Monster Mayhem, Savage Encounters, various NPCs and a whole lot of other free stuff that pretty much fulls the role of 'cunning tactics', 'unique set-ups' and 'cool settings' so why not have a single page dedicated to suped up monsters?

 

[Psion]

I dunno, I find those 'Elite Opponents' things as rather lacking in effort on the part of the writers. It's just class levels and templates every time.

I gotta say that I can see where the people who are complaining here are coming from. Some of it does seem very slapdash.

That said, they aren't exactly going to put stock creatures on the website, now are they? You use stock creatures as run of the mill encounters. It seems to me that these sorts of creatures are special encounters of encounters for high level parties. The aspect that sold me on porting my game to 3e was the ability to scale and customize monster. I see little reason for disdain of using that feature.

Tell me, do any of you that think that this is "lacking of effort" hold threads on the Rogues Gallery forum here in the same contempt?

 

[Eosin the Red]

Yeah, it's a dumb complaint.

Well, I guess I should clarify for you.

I was talking about the need for templates on every single character. Do those characters remain Yuan Ti? Is Frankenstien a human? He is a half golem if I ever heard of one. The collection of stats seems less an article on Yuan Ti and more an article on half bred monsters.

I like stated creatures on the web site, they are time savers. I went looking for some Yuan Ti and I did not find any. Why does "Elite" = Must have a template? Why can't it mean 3 levels in ranger? or 8 levels in druid? Is there a rule that I am unaware that requires templates for the designator "Elite"? If so, then I was unaware and can see how my question is construed as a "dumb complaint," if there is no such rule then I re-iterate the question why is everything half bred. There is more genetic engineering going on in fantasy D&D than in RIFTs and the Star Trek eugenics war combined to crank out the number of half breed monsters seen around these parts lately.

Where are all of these colleges of magical genetic crossbreeding? There must be some form of unified experimentation since it seems that a huge percentage of creatures are no longer pure breed strains.

If there are no vast networks of magical genetic engineers - Did the Dragon mate with the T-Rex or vice versa? Was it consentual? Did anyone press charges?

Monster mayham....now there I expect templates galore and sometimes they are even good. I am just curious to know when the trend started that requires everything to have a template and if other people find it as plain dumb as I do?

PS - I like free stuff. Those who read the initial post will find that it is about the use of templates. Yes, you can use levels and still be a stock Yuan Ti (as in STOCK not changed into something else).

And if I want to make a dumb complaint....more power to me. Try a better responce than "What a dumb complaint." It may not be something that you find bothersome but by all means your personal tastes are not the end all be all of D&D fashion.

 

[Gwarok]

I also think all the half axiomatic hippogriff/half fiendish owlbears are a bit silly. Me, add some levels, a shiny magic item or two with a twist and some background would be a bit more interesting than what they have been doing. But again its free.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't mind 'em, but they do seem to be a bit lacking in imagination....

I mean, who the frick would want to, except in certain specific situations, make a half-golem yuan-ti? Eh?

The half-fiend I could see, but half-fiend goes with anything...

Having a unique Yuan-Ti courtesan/assassin would be a time saver (the niche of rich poser is a niche they often fill), or a Yuan-Ti Cleric (perhaps half-fiend), or a Human Paladin Yuan-Ti Tainted One Blackguard (could have a VERY interesting story behind it).

Some of them just seem like randomly throwing templates at things, and if there was more thought given to the description than 'she was a snake woman who wanted to get power, and so MADE HERSELF A CONSTRUCT!', it could be something that would tempt me to use it despite it's aparent absurdity. But chucking templates at a creature doesn't nessecarily make it elite.

And, indeed, I think less adding things, and more describing NPC's, situations, and motivations would work better. Give me a plot and a hook with the Half-Fiend Yuan-Ti cleric, rather than just saying 'he ws the product of an EVIL CULT...that DID SEX! WITH DEMONS!'.....I mean, duh on that. Give me something meatier to work with.

That said, I'm not gonna complain about it...but I don't find it useful, so I point out the criticism. I don't find them to be time-savers, or especially unique or interesting (unlike most of the Rogue's Gallery here), I find them to be "let's roll a dice and see what template and/or class to add to this creature..."

 

[Davelozzi]

IMC, I use lots of creatures advanced with levels or HD, or with slightly tweaked abilities from the MM standards. And I'll use templates less frequently, mostly for the appropriate kinds of undead, lycanthropes and the like.

But I generally just say "no" to half-breeds, and I haven't bothered looking at WotC's Elite Opponents since the first couple that were posted.

 

[Carnifex]

It's about saving time for those who don't want to roll up stats for advanced monsters or for those who would like examples of what can be done. What you are asking for is totally different. That does not mean this article fails to do what it said it would do. 'Elite' has a very specific meaning in DnD. And quite frankly, i doubt very seriously that any article would be able to make the rp aspect of the monsters more evocative than a dm who knows his group and campaign.

I will say it again; fluff is easy or plentiful...mechanics are less intuitive and require more precision. That is why this is more useful for me, though that's beside to the point. That actual point is that you are foisting an irrational complaint on something that has utility for others because it doesn't meet you peculiar symantics on the word 'Elite'.

The title of the article implies that it's about yuan-ti. It's not really, though, is it? It's about templates.

Apparently I'm making an irrational complaint. Well, no, I'm not. I'm not actually making a complaint at all - like it has been pointed out, this is a free text. I haven't paid for it or otherwise invested anything other than a brief moment of time in reading it. I don't feel cheated or ripped off. I just feel that they could do something much better with it rather than, yet again, a gallery of templated monsters. There's very little about the yuan-ti themselves in it, and the backgrounds for the actual characters portrayed tend towards the extremely shallow and undeveloped end. As I said before, it's not worthwhile reading for me. *shrug*

You say that fluff is more easy than mechanics - perhaps, but that's not what I'm talking about here. They aren't giving use new mechanics. They're just using pre-existing ones to once again say 'ooh, look what we've done with some templates.' That takes even less time than fluff. Not to mention that what I was suggesting, along the lines of tactics and concepts, are not necessarily fluff, but methods of applying the mechanics.

As for the meaning of the word 'elite', it has exactly the same meaning in D&D as it does anywhere else.

 

[Vaxalon]

I didn't bother reading the article because I only use OGL races.