D&D 4E Yugoloths in 4E

SPECTRE666

Explorer
Richard Baker also said thatYugoloths are now Demons. So does Worlds and Monsters.

Richard Baker said:
Yeah, Fin, yugoloths are now demons in FR, just like they are in core. That's an example of the kind of rules question that FR needs to follow the core rules on.

My personal theory (still working on this one) is that "yugoloth" is a family or branch of demonkind, like tanar'ri, obyrith, or loumara. I think that each family might have different characteristics or purposes, so it's possible that yugoloths, despite their demonic nature, might retain that mercenary role they've always had. But that's only my personal musings at this point.

As far as I can tell, this change doesn't invalidate the concept of enmity between devils and demons, or the idea that they might have fought/still be fighting a gigantic cosmos-wide war.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingoldfin
Let's ask a Realms designer.

Rich,

Are yugoloths now demons in Forgotten Realms? If they are demons now does that mean the Blood War never existed? Were Tanar'ri and Baaetzu always friends?

__________________
Rich Baker
Senior Designer
Roleplaying R&D
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
 

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Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey Spectre! :)

Perhaps the Yugoloths could be the offspring of Demons & Devils?

Or a sub-race of Demons affected by some form of wasting disease.

It will be interesting to see how how the Demon Princes and Daemon Masters get along or if the latter will just be scrapped?

It might have made more sense to have the Slaad become a demonic sub-race and have the Daemons become Shadowy echoes of other evil, decaying because of the intrinsic negative energy of the plane. Then again the Slaad could become the footsoldiers of the Far Realm I suppose.

Far Realm: Slaad & Inevitables (Inevitables guarding the borders of the Far Realm)
Elemental Planes: Demons & Archons
Astral Plane: Devils & Angels
Shadow Plane: Daemons & ?
Feywild: Fomorians & Eladrin
 

Dunamin

First Post
Upper_Krust said:
It might have made more sense to have the Slaad become a demonic sub-race and have the Daemons become Shadowy echoes of other evil, decaying because of the intrinsic negative energy of the plane. Then again the Slaad could become the footsoldiers of the Far Realm I suppose.

Far Realm: Slaad & Inevitables (Inevitables guarding the borders of the Far Realm)
Huh? How are Slaad or Inevitables remotely related to the Far Realm?
 

Kid Charlemagne

I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
Dunamin said:
Huh? How are Slaad or Inevitables remotely related to the Far Realm?

I can see the thought process: Slaad live in Limbo, and Limbo is about as close to Far Realms as you got before the Far Realms was invented. By the same token, if you want to guard a place of chaos and madness, you need something as lawful and regimented as possible - hence Inevitables.

Not saying I necessarily agree with the idea, just that I grok where it's coming from.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
I don't mind Yugoloths being a kind of 'mercenary demon,' actually. If they're still their own family, I can rock it.

It can even work with the 'inscrutable wills' of the Ultraloths.

I'm a little sad we're loosing a 'middle ground' kind of fiend, but there might be an easy way to reinstate it, and I confess that there's not much mythological oomph behind 'extraplanar mercenaries', and that Devils kind of took the whole 'insctrutable wills' thing for themselves.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Limbo isn't like the Far Realms, it is however exactly like the Elemental Chaos (and Worlds and Monsters clearly states that Limbo and the Abyss both find their new home in the Elemental Chaos
 


Dunamin

First Post
Kid Charlemagne said:
I can see the thought process: Slaad live in Limbo, and Limbo is about as close to Far Realms as you got before the Far Realms was invented. By the same token, if you want to guard a place of chaos and madness, you need something as lawful and regimented as possible - hence Inevitables.

Not saying I necessarily agree with the idea, just that I grok where it's coming from.
I certainly hope that's not the case.

I thought the point of inevitables was to enforce a law, such as "none shall break a pact" or "none shall live forever". Having a caste of "no Far Realm being shall enter the World" inevitable seems sort of a slim concept to me. If there's going to be guardians for portals/rifts to the Far Realm it certainly makes sense for them to be lawful and disciplined, but inevitables just seems off.

Slaadi I don't see either. They're chaotic, but they don't seem Lovecraftian at all and nothing really seems reminiscent of any aberrations I can think of.
 


The Little Raven

First Post
Kamikaze Midget said:
I'm a little sad we're loosing a 'middle ground' kind of fiend, but there might be an easy way to reinstate it, and I confess that there's not much mythological oomph behind 'extraplanar mercenaries', and that Devils kind of took the whole 'insctrutable wills' thing for themselves.

This "need" for "middle ground" fiends/monsters reminds me of the "need" for symmetry in races that gave us a bagillion kinds of elf and dwarf.
 


FourthBear

First Post
Kamikaze Midget said:
I'm a little sad we're loosing a 'middle ground' kind of fiend, but there might be an easy way to reinstate it, and I confess that there's not much mythological oomph behind 'extraplanar mercenaries', and that Devils kind of took the whole 'insctrutable wills' thing for themselves.

I have to admit that while I did like some of the specific daemons and concepts, overall the race has never particularly inspired me. The writers had a hard enough time trying to distinguish the CE fiends from the LE fiends, let alone from the NE fiends. Unless a very strong distinguishing concept can be come up with, I would just as soon see them as another family of demons.
 

Khuxan

First Post
I don't know much about yugoloths, but I thought they manipulated the Blood War for their own ends. In that case, doesn't it make sense for them to be scheming devils?
 

Kunimatyu

First Post
Yugoloths(and their baernoloth creators) work as the demons that formed near the center of Tharizdun's hole in the Elemental Chaos, and they're basically pure undiluted Evil, serving Evil for its own sake. Other demons, formed out of more chaos+evil, focus on destruction -- the yugoloths embody Evil in its purest form.
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
Kunimatyu said:
Yugoloths(and their baernoloth creators) work as the demons that formed near the center of Tharizdun's hole in the Elemental Chaos, and they're basically pure undiluted Evil, serving Evil for its own sake. Other demons, formed out of more chaos+evil, focus on destruction -- the yugoloths embody Evil in its purest form.

That could certainly work, with the yugoloths serving as the hands of the ultroloths (or baernaloths), mingling with the demons, living amongst and acting much like demons themselves. The ultroloths might be the shattered embodiments of the shard of Evil that Tharizdun used to wreck the elemental chaos, and the baernaloths could be an even more distant and unknowable evil that gave that lovely little toy to Tharizdun in the first place, seeking to corrupt (another) multiverse with their touch. They aren't destruction, they aren't control and domination, they're the malign Other.

Of course, call me jaded, but I really don't see WotC giving them much elaboration, or going much beyond 'soldier demons'. Which is a shame.
 
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kennew142

First Post
Although individual yugoloths were cool (almost all of them, in fact), as a separate type of creature they never did it for me. I've never used the Great Wheel cosmology, so I never needed a different kind of creature for each alignment.

Since it appears that Law and Chaos will be downplayed in 4e, I don't have a problem with yugoloths being a classification of demon. I do hope to see some cool ( :p ) stats for ultrodemons soon. Mezzodemons will be in the MM1.

I am also glad to see that the naming convention has gone back to its roots. In AD&D, mezzoloaths were mezzodaemons, nycoloths were nycodaemons, etc.... The XXX-loths seemed an unwelcome holdover from 2e IMO.
 


Shemeska

Adventurer
And because I can:

Chorazin the Thrice Damned drifted high above the metaphysical landscape, the halo of flame atop his head shedding a surreal light upon his surroundings and his sole companion. Below them the tides and currents of the elemental chaos rose and fell like a great ocean of raw physical creation. Tidal waves of flame crashed upon islands of eternal ice while living gemstones flowered and dusted the air with drifting clouds of stinging minerals. Everything was unsullied in its own way, though the model was left perfect from the standpoint of symmetry.

"What is it that you would have us do here Father/Mother?"

The question was direct and pragmatic, spoken as the baernaloth had come to expect from his handmaiden in that new cosmos. Larsdana Ap Neut stood next to him, the ruff of fur on her cheeks windblown and raw, touched with a layer of whisper-thin salt and dust from the unruly elemental maelstrom below. The exposure to the elements, the raw and actual elements, rather than just the metaphysical -idea- of those elements as expressed by a form and variety of evil was something she was unaccostumed to. Her eyes watered and her flesh was raw, though the blood that seeped from the corners of her eyes and sullied the velvet of her robes was due the agony she embraced by standing so close to her maker.

"We've done this before Larsdana." Chorazin Ibn Shartalan explained, his voice causing the arcanaloth's form to momentarily blur and twist. "As different as this conception of reality might appear, you should recognize the taste."

"Yes, Great One, I do." Her tongue flicked out like a serpent, touching the air and licking the caked minerals from her muzzle. "Are we to be your intruments this time, like the last? Or is the one below us dancing and laughing like a mad fool to play some part in this?"

The Gloom Father's dead white eyes twitched and he smiled, revealing ragged teeth stained with black, greasy blood. "Good. You see the differences."

A sly, jackal's grin crossed her face as she began to see her role and that of the idiot godling below.

Unknowing, still innocent in his own way, Tharizdun laughed and played, combining and merging the elements to make new and wonderous things to amuse his child-like mind.

"Hmm? Now what would this be?"

The godling paused and looked down at the curious purple gemstone that he'd come across. He'd never seen anything like it before, and as he stared in amazement and wonder, its cold illumination played over his face, striking thin, fine lines of age into his features.

"Hello" The gemstone spoke to him, polite and promising, hinting at so many amazing things that it could show him, all with a single word.

"Beautiful precious thing." Tharizdun said. "Who or what might you be? I've played across the shores of the elements and the depths of the astral seas, but never have I seen something like you."

"I am the Heart of Darkness" The gemstone replied, smiling into his mind and brushing delicate claws across the god's face, drawing bruises and age-spots across the flesh. "But my newfound friend, you may call me Larsdana, and I have so many things to show you.".

Smiling, Tharizdun reached forward and touched the gemstone.
 
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Gold Roger

First Post
While I really like most of the loth, I have no beef with them becoming demons. In fact, I'm all in favor of it, as long as we get the cooler ones asap. Mezzodemon is granted, but Ultrodemon, Arcanademon and however the mini-charons where called would be cool as well.
 

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