Yugoloths or Daemons

[The Allamistako]

Actually, Daemon is the spelling of the german word "Dämon", with out the two dots over the a. It translates to "Demon" or "Devil", and is prononced "Daeymoon"

If anyone happens to visit germany, and comes by kaiserslautern one day, I'll give him a sound version.

-Alla

 

[Gez]

Nah, daemon is greek, not german.

Well, see this: http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html

"Many people equate the word ``daemon'' with the word ``demon,'' implying some kind of Satanic connection between UNIX and the underworld. This is an egregious misunderstanding. ``Daemon'' is actually a much older form of ``demon''; daemons have no particular bias towards good or evil, but rather serve to help define a person's character or personality. The ancient Greeks' concept of a ``personal daemon'' was similar to the modern concept of a ``guardian angel'' --- ``eudaemonia'' is the state of being helped or protected by a kindly spirit. As a rule, UNIX systems seem to be infested with both daemons and demons."

Note that Philip Pullman used that "daemon" concept in his Northern Lights books. Which are great by the way, I recommend them.

 

[Psion]

Nah, daemon is greek, not german.

Well, see this: http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html
(...)
"``eudaemonia'' is the state of being helped or protected by a kindly spirit."

You're not refuting the point here, though. In my philosophy classes, eudaemonia was pronounced "you-die-moh-knee-uh."

 

[Psion]

However, I like to use daemon as a generic name for neutral evil outsiders and yugoloth as the specific name for, uhm, yugoloths.

Yeah, what he said.

Other than the potential confusion with "demon", I don't mind that they didn't use Yugoloth for NE outsiders in CCII or Tome of Horrors. Not that they could have.

 

[Psion]

Actually, this is incorrect, though it's easy to see how you'd come to this conclusion, given the ret-conning of the terms "demon" and "devil" for 3E.

Actually it's not incorrect. It is my take, but is a superset of a similar principle used by the MM, which is (if anything) the technically and canocially "correct" take.

In 2E, "demons" were tanar'ri and "devils" were baatezu. These terms only applied to those creatures. While there were other denizens of both the Abyss and Baator, they were not demons nor devils in any sense of the words. Bebiliths were just bebiliths, not bebilith demons.

What 2e did is no longer relevant. In 3e, bebeliths are demons, kytons are devils, and so forth. This change was intentional.

In 3E, the terminology was ret-conned. Now, instead of the terms "demon" and "devil" being ignorant monikers for races that already had a name, they were now applied to the denizens of those planes as a whole. A "demon" was not the mortal name for a tanar'ri...rather, it was now the correct name for any creature that came from the Abyss, tanar'ri or not. The tanar'ri were now a specific sub-grouping of demon, and the same goes for baatezu and devils.

However, nothing has been done thus far with yugoloths and "daemons". So far, the term "daemons" hasn't been used in any WotC product for anything.

I never said it had been. The purpose of this poll, as I read it, is how YOU use the terms. I simply stated my convention, which followed suit with the existing 3e conventions.

But thank you for elucidating for those who might not have been aware. But as for me, you are not only preaching to the chior, you are preaching to the pope.

 

[Gez]

Other than the potential confusion with "demon", I don't mind that they didn't use Yugoloth for NE outsiders in CCII or Tome of Horrors. Not that they could have.

Technically, however, all thingodaemon from the ToH are yugoloths, and all thingie daemon from CC2 are yugoloth too (the daemon qualities listed are yugoloth qualities).

Baatezu-, Yugoloth-, and Tanar'ri-ness (to make short, baago'riness) is not primarily a question of subgrouping. Demons that have poison and electricity immunity; cold, fire and acid resistances 20; and 100-ft. range telepathy with anything having a language are tanar'ri.

By the way, not all CE outsiders are demons (similarly for NE and daemon, and LE and devils). Howlers are CE, but are not demon (while the bezekiras is recongnized as a devil). Vargouille, night hag, nightmare, are all NE outsiders without being demons. Xill and Hell Hound are LE but not devils (Hell Hounds, however, compensate by being "deetwen'ti", an especially nasty category of fiends that dramatically increase the overall number of monsters).

 

[Aeolius]

Having switched to 3e D&D from 1e AD&D, I prefer the older terms. Demons, devils, daemons, and demodands would most likely benefit from the chaos and confusion the similarity in their names causes. In fact, years ago, I added daimons as an incorporeal NE(C) planar baddie responsible for possessions and the like.

Granted, I also added haggeloth, as hag-daemon just doesn't seem to sound right. Then there are my naelle, or wasp daemons, and blood demodands, which I added as female counterparts to the succubus and erinyes, when I was building the Night Hag Family Tree.

 

[Xeriar]

Actually, Daemon is the spelling of the german word "Dämon", with out the two dots over the a. It translates to "Demon" or "Devil", and is prononced "Daeymoon"

If anyone happens to visit germany, and comes by kaiserslautern one day, I'll give him a sound version.

-Alla

It's from an Indo-European root word, so it's found all over. The English 'Demon' comes from Latin 'Daemon' from Greek 'Daimon' from Indo-European da- (I can't type that letter, lol)

 

[Psion]

Here we go again.

Technically, however, all thingodaemon from the ToH are yugoloths, and all thingie daemon from CC2 are yugoloth too (the daemon qualities listed are yugoloth qualities).

Yes, I know.

By the way, not all CE outsiders are demons (similarly for NE and daemon, and LE and devils). Howlers are CE, but are not demon (while the bezekiras is recongnized as a devil). Vargouille, night hag, nightmare, are all NE outsiders without being demons. Xill and Hell Hound are LE but not devils (Hell Hounds, however, compensate by being "deetwen'ti", an especially nasty category of fiends that dramatically increase the overall number of monsters).

Yes, I know.

But once again, thanks for elucidating for those who didn't.

 

[Arnwyn]

How about Yugomon?

You WIN!