D&D 5E Zard's Warlord Concept

[Zardnaar]

One of my warlords can get an extra attack and hp. The warlord stuff doesnt have to be as good as invocations because Warlocks don't get rallying cry, armor, superioity dice and an extra feat.

 

[Tony Vargas]

One of my warlords can get an extra attack and hp. The warlord stuff doesnt have to be as good as invocations because Warlocks don't get rallying cry, armor, superioity dice and an extra feat.

Armor & weapons just aren't that significant. Extra attacks & ASI's aren't something the Warlord needs, and one could always MC to fighter if you really wanted 'em. So feel free to drop those - and move rallying cry under maneuvers, so players who don't want to 'heal' have alternatives.

And, just because they have the word 'superiority' in the name doesn't mean CS dice are any better than spell slots, which is what it sounds like you're trying to say.

I'm really a bit more concerned that expending a CS die to use a maneuver stack up adequately against expending a short-rest-recharge slot to cast a spell, than 'exploits' stacking up to invocations. Though both would have to happen if they're to balance at.

 

[Zardnaar]

Armor & weapons just aren't that significant. Extra attacks & ASI's aren't something the Warlord needs, and one could always MC to fighter if you really wanted 'em. So feel free to drop those - and move rallying cry under maneuvers, so players who don't want to 'heal' have alternatives.

And, just because they have the word 'superiority' in the name doesn't mean CS dice are any better than spell slots, which is what it sounds like you're trying to say.

I'm really a bit more concerned that expending a CS die to use a maneuver stack up adequately against expending a short-rest-recharge slot to cast a spell, than 'exploits' stacking up to invocations. Though both would have to happen if they're to balance at.

You are underestimating how good everything is I think. Some of the exploits I have designed are identical to invocations such as the extra attack one for the bravura Warlord. I don't need a Warlord to be a reskinned warlock I just thought its the easiest way to represent the various ideas out there. There is no warlock invocation for example that lets their allies add charisma there bonus to hit for example. ANd the warlord can use that one every single round.

Superiority die (and inspiration dice) are often roughly comparable to a 1st level spell in terms of power.

I think at this point you will never be satisfied with a 5E Warlord anyway. If you want a Warlord with comparable power to a spellcaster play the Valor Bard. You seem to expect one that can heal as well as a cleric (which in 4E they could not do), in other threads you expect them to be able to heal and now you say they should not be able to.

So you are either trolling by now or you could put your own warlord up for critique but I don't think you really know how since 5E is not really your thing or everyone would likely tell you it is broken because you have made it to powerful. You seem to have a lot of idea put a class up.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You are underestimating how good everything is I think.

I haven't even gotten into specifics.

I don't need a Warlord to be a reskinned warlock I just thought its the easiest way to represent the various ideas out there.

You used the warlock's resource model, which does seem like a good mechanical starting point if you want a mostly short-rest-recharge class. It does suggest something about the power level around which those resources will balance. That's all.

Superiority die are often roughly comparable to a 1st level spell in terms of power.

I assume you mean a superiority die expended to use a maneuver. That does sound about right for a battlemaster maneuver, since any of them is available at 3rd level, the same time an EK picks up 1st level spells. They never go anywhere after that, so it seems like you'll have to add some higher level maneuvers that'll eventually be comparable to similar level spells in the same way. Either that or more CS dice than slots to make up for never getting anything beyond apprentice-tier-appropriate maneuvers...


You can't expect to create a balanced class by basing quantity of resources on a class that gets higher level spells, but power of individual resources on one that only ever gets 1st-level-equivalent maneuvers.

 

[Zardnaar]

I haven't even gotten into specifics.

You used the warlock's resource model, which does seem like a good mechanical starting point if you want a mostly short-rest-recharge class. It does suggest something about the power level around which those resources will balance. That's all.

I assume you mean a superiority die expended to use a maneuver. That does sound about right for a battlemaster maneuver, since any of them is available at 3rd level, the same time an EK picks up 1st level spells. They never go anywhere after that, so it seems like you'll have to add some higher level maneuvers that'll eventually be comparable to similar level spells in the same way. Either that or more CS dice than slots to make up for never getting anything beyond apprentice-tier-appropriate maneuvers...


You can't expect to create a balanced class by basing quantity of resources on a class that gets higher level spells, but power of individual resources on one that only ever gets 1st-level-equivalent maneuvers.

I did. My exploits so far seem comparable to invocations. Charisma bonus to hit at will is good for example.

The weapons armor, superiority dice, extra feat and rallying cry are the spell replacements which warlocks do not get. They are alway on instead of twice a day or 3 times a day a warlock gets their spells.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I did. My exploits so far seem comparable to invocations.

I'm glad to hear you made an effort, there...

The weapons armor, superiority dice, extra feat and rallying cry are the spell replacements which warlocks do not get. They are alway on instead of twice a day or 3 times a day a warlock gets their spells.

This is still not making much sense. An extra ASI hardly seems a must-have feature (it's a call back to 3e fighter bonus feats, the Warlord never got bonus feats), weapons are trivial for the Warlock who has Eldritch Blast, and Rallying Cry would be better as a maneuver than a feature, so players who didn't want that function could skip it, anyway.

And that leaves superiority dice mapping to spell slots. Warlock spells are short-rest recharge, just like CS dice. Isn't that the whole point of using it as a template?

That still leaves whatever maneuvers you're going to come up with needing to stack up to be reasonably balanced compared to spells of the level the Warlock gets. Not the spells on it's list, obviously, because the focus of the class is so different, but spells of the same level from support classes like the Bard or Cleric...

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm glad to hear you made an effort, there...

This is still not making much sense. An extra ASI hardly seems a must-have feature (it's a call back to 3e fighter bonus feats, the Warlord never got bonus feats), weapons are trivial for the Warlock who has Eldritch Blast, and Rallying Cry would be better as a maneuver than a feature, so players who didn't want that function could skip it, anyway.

And that leaves superiority dice mapping to spell slots. Warlock spells are short-rest recharge, just like CS dice. Isn't that the whole point of using it as a template?

That still leaves whatever maneuvers you're going to come up with needing to stack up to be reasonably balanced compared to spells of the level the Warlock gets. Not the spells on it's list, obviously, because the focus of the class is so different, but spells of the same level from support classes like the Bard or Cleric...

ASI does map to the extra feats the fighter and Rogue get in the 5E context being a martial class. Rallying Cry is also staying as it is a port of the 4E healing word and if people don't like it well tough. Realistically I don't think you could do much with a class called Warlord anyway to make it acceptable. As long as its not borken or pathetically weak I am happy with it.