ZEITGEIST Zeitvice: one GM's guide to the best AP
Crispy120286
Explorer
Awesome!
Ark, i have a question. I asked it in its own thread but i never got any replies. I'll expand upon it here. One of my players is a Technologist. Kieran Oddcog, younger brother to Tinker Oddcog. And during digging for lies, he became attached to Benedict Pemberton. Pemberton even personally invited him to his gathering at the Faire and shown him the B.E.A.R. prototype and he got to use it briefly. After Pemberton wrote his book he even sent Kieran a Signed copy.
My big question is, what happened to Pemberton in Risur? I see that he went on tour across the nation and had things to say about Danor peace talks and made veiled threats to Ber. Then it says he was recently discredited and his offices are abandoned waiting his debtors. What exactly happened to him to be discredited? Did he just abandon Flint and move to Ber?
I do want to have an awesome reveal shwoing that Pemberton is a villain (Surprise!) And omfg a dragon! I dont think im going to have Lee spoil that in my game because my group is attached to Pemberton.
Ark, i have a question. I asked it in its own thread but i never got any replies. I'll expand upon it here. One of my players is a Technologist. Kieran Oddcog, younger brother to Tinker Oddcog. And during digging for lies, he became attached to Benedict Pemberton. Pemberton even personally invited him to his gathering at the Faire and shown him the B.E.A.R. prototype and he got to use it briefly. After Pemberton wrote his book he even sent Kieran a Signed copy.
My big question is, what happened to Pemberton in Risur? I see that he went on tour across the nation and had things to say about Danor peace talks and made veiled threats to Ber. Then it says he was recently discredited and his offices are abandoned waiting his debtors. What exactly happened to him to be discredited? Did he just abandon Flint and move to Ber?
I do want to have an awesome reveal shwoing that Pemberton is a villain (Surprise!) And omfg a dragon! I dont think im going to have Lee spoil that in my game because my group is attached to Pemberton.
arkwright
Explorer
Crispy, it looks like you're referring to this building in Book 5:
Pemberton Industries Office Building. This squat complex once served as a testing ground for the discredited Pemberton Industries’ experiments with personal arcanoscientific devices. Now it is locked and lightly guarded until Benedict Pemberton or his debtors can clear out the labs. The university briefly had a department of arcanoscience based here, but now the students have been forced to find other accommodations, most of them much less safe in the event of accidents.
There are also these lines in Book 6:
Today, Gradiax goes by the name Benedict Pemberton, owner of Pemberton Industries, which until recently manufactured experimental military technologies in Flint, the industrial heart of Risur. Harkover Lee and Pemberton both know each other’s identities, and Lee has kept an eye on his fellow dragon’s business, wary of betrayal.
My best guess- between Book 4 and 5, Harkover and Aodhan got suspicious of Pemberton and either started investigating him or ordered him to close down operations. Maybe they didn't like him getting involved in politics (in it, he argues that the Risur-Danor peace conference scheduled for early Spring 501 could kill the nation’s progress in technological innovation, since without the threat of war there will be no motivation for research. Critics charge he’s making a veiled push for war with Ber, about which he makes derogatory claims throughout the book.) I think he then fled for Ber with his base and his corporate holdings there.
Brainstorming for Zeitvice Book 8 is going well. I've read through my game's OOC logs and come up with 40+ issues to mention, and there'll likely be more after I finish re-reading the book.
Pemberton Industries Office Building. This squat complex once served as a testing ground for the discredited Pemberton Industries’ experiments with personal arcanoscientific devices. Now it is locked and lightly guarded until Benedict Pemberton or his debtors can clear out the labs. The university briefly had a department of arcanoscience based here, but now the students have been forced to find other accommodations, most of them much less safe in the event of accidents.
There are also these lines in Book 6:
Today, Gradiax goes by the name Benedict Pemberton, owner of Pemberton Industries, which until recently manufactured experimental military technologies in Flint, the industrial heart of Risur. Harkover Lee and Pemberton both know each other’s identities, and Lee has kept an eye on his fellow dragon’s business, wary of betrayal.
My best guess- between Book 4 and 5, Harkover and Aodhan got suspicious of Pemberton and either started investigating him or ordered him to close down operations. Maybe they didn't like him getting involved in politics (in it, he argues that the Risur-Danor peace conference scheduled for early Spring 501 could kill the nation’s progress in technological innovation, since without the threat of war there will be no motivation for research. Critics charge he’s making a veiled push for war with Ber, about which he makes derogatory claims throughout the book.) I think he then fled for Ber with his base and his corporate holdings there.
Brainstorming for Zeitvice Book 8 is going well. I've read through my game's OOC logs and come up with 40+ issues to mention, and there'll likely be more after I finish re-reading the book.
Crispy120286
Explorer
Excellent! Great write up.
I do have one question however. Is there ever a grand reveal during the campaign that Miller IS Nicodemus? Or are the players supposed to sus it out during the many Nicodemus memory events throughout adventure 8?
I do have one question however. Is there ever a grand reveal during the campaign that Miller IS Nicodemus? Or are the players supposed to sus it out during the many Nicodemus memory events throughout adventure 8?
Arcaneshield
Explorer
Wow. Don't think I've ever more strongly disagreed with your take on a book before. Wonder if it's because I actually started running it before I read your zeitviece and thus made up my own mind first. Hmmm. Very interesting.
Arcaneshield
Explorer
I think less about facts and more about personal opinion and interpretations of Elfaivar and the setting. I find you to be generally unfair to the writers of Zeitgeist and your biases are in full view. Perhaps I'll take some time after work to offer more detail but for the moment I feel the disagreement lies more in interpretation and soft value than facts one could get strictly incorrect.
If I was being charitable I think ultimately I would say that both of us saw holes in the setting and story and came to very different ways to fill those holes. It is difficult for me to determine if my disagreement is with your interpretation of things as they are written or simply that we are on different self constructed foundations looking at a text we've diverged on several books past and it's only now coming to a head.
If I was being charitable I think ultimately I would say that both of us saw holes in the setting and story and came to very different ways to fill those holes. It is difficult for me to determine if my disagreement is with your interpretation of things as they are written or simply that we are on different self constructed foundations looking at a text we've diverged on several books past and it's only now coming to a head.
Last edited:
Arcaneshield
Explorer
Alright I've got a bit of time now so I'll touch base on my disagreements and how I saw things. Namely the big disagreements are in Elfaivar gender dynamics and all that comes form that and from the little side bit with the edgy blacksmith.
I would like to first off state that I feel the campaign is pretty clear on there not being an really true good guys or bad guys perse. There's a lot of unaligned people and governments and a lot of 'ends justify the means'
Now firstly you make a good point that it seems that female elastin are very inconsistent in the setting. I agree. Almost like the players or setting guide was written before the campaign itself was and the writers didn't all communicate. Totally agree with that.
I'm not big on on ascribing moral failings to a writer because they depict things I find morally distasteful and I would caution against uncharitability like that. I personally know this writer from years ago and do not at all care for them so I'm not saying this out of a pro bias.
Now the goddess dying you make a point of it not making sense who all died. As I understood it, the god of war represented war so killing that God would kill their martial desire. I thought Sasrama was like the mother goddess and so when she died, since she represented femininity in Elfaivar it killed nearly every woman.
As for the aftermath. Eladrin women are now extremely rare. That makes them valuable. As I understood it some Eladrin women were able to leverage that value for political power or to keep their existing power and became the matriarchy. Whereas in other areas they sadly became a commodity fought over by evil or just desperate males.
And remember historically Elfaivar basically collapses. We know some women flocked to conclaves and lived in hiding but others would have been caught by clergy forces and seeing they are a value a slave industry does sadly make sense that it could come about as the internal value on Eladrin women gets revealed to the continent at large. Scarcity is a value all its own.
Now if you look at the men of Elfaivar we can see a utter despair take over them. The sexual dynamics are completely out of wack now. Males are even more expendable in society as they vastly vastly outnumber the women, the older men lost their wives and families while the younger men have no hope of continuing their line.
Even with the few Eladrin women taking multiple husband's they'd have their pick and the men in that relationship would be sharing a woman with many other men. I see a great diaspora of Eladrin men leaving Elfaivar because there's no future for the vast majority of men there. Why wouldn't they try to find life outside their home? Find an elf in risur or a human even and have the chance for a family and to be valued?
That's also why I think the seven year brothel thing came about. The matriarchs were suffering a drain of their menfolk from their country. They probably had societal unrest from less than fortunate males without the political clout to attract a woman to add them to her harem. It is cynical and messed up but I see the ruling matriarchs instituting this practice to give their menfolk something to work towards and I personally headcanon this also serving possibly as a breeding program as well. And remember just because a few women rule the conclaves doesn't mean that the other women have power. I doubt kasvarina herself offered her body up for the task but rather the skoely building younger generation.
And as for the edgy blacksmith. Their prisoners are colonizers. They hate them, especially those of the clergy. There's nothing to indicate Elfaivar is an especially moral or humane society. I'm sure that Athrylla knows the blacksmith is doing what he's doing and it's absolutely approved.
Now please note this is all typed on my phone before work. Feel free to pick it apart and disagree I'll aim to be more charitable and argue my points back and forth when I have time
I would like to first off state that I feel the campaign is pretty clear on there not being an really true good guys or bad guys perse. There's a lot of unaligned people and governments and a lot of 'ends justify the means'
Now firstly you make a good point that it seems that female elastin are very inconsistent in the setting. I agree. Almost like the players or setting guide was written before the campaign itself was and the writers didn't all communicate. Totally agree with that.
I'm not big on on ascribing moral failings to a writer because they depict things I find morally distasteful and I would caution against uncharitability like that. I personally know this writer from years ago and do not at all care for them so I'm not saying this out of a pro bias.
Now the goddess dying you make a point of it not making sense who all died. As I understood it, the god of war represented war so killing that God would kill their martial desire. I thought Sasrama was like the mother goddess and so when she died, since she represented femininity in Elfaivar it killed nearly every woman.
As for the aftermath. Eladrin women are now extremely rare. That makes them valuable. As I understood it some Eladrin women were able to leverage that value for political power or to keep their existing power and became the matriarchy. Whereas in other areas they sadly became a commodity fought over by evil or just desperate males.
And remember historically Elfaivar basically collapses. We know some women flocked to conclaves and lived in hiding but others would have been caught by clergy forces and seeing they are a value a slave industry does sadly make sense that it could come about as the internal value on Eladrin women gets revealed to the continent at large. Scarcity is a value all its own.
Now if you look at the men of Elfaivar we can see a utter despair take over them. The sexual dynamics are completely out of wack now. Males are even more expendable in society as they vastly vastly outnumber the women, the older men lost their wives and families while the younger men have no hope of continuing their line.
Even with the few Eladrin women taking multiple husband's they'd have their pick and the men in that relationship would be sharing a woman with many other men. I see a great diaspora of Eladrin men leaving Elfaivar because there's no future for the vast majority of men there. Why wouldn't they try to find life outside their home? Find an elf in risur or a human even and have the chance for a family and to be valued?
That's also why I think the seven year brothel thing came about. The matriarchs were suffering a drain of their menfolk from their country. They probably had societal unrest from less than fortunate males without the political clout to attract a woman to add them to her harem. It is cynical and messed up but I see the ruling matriarchs instituting this practice to give their menfolk something to work towards and I personally headcanon this also serving possibly as a breeding program as well. And remember just because a few women rule the conclaves doesn't mean that the other women have power. I doubt kasvarina herself offered her body up for the task but rather the skoely building younger generation.
And as for the edgy blacksmith. Their prisoners are colonizers. They hate them, especially those of the clergy. There's nothing to indicate Elfaivar is an especially moral or humane society. I'm sure that Athrylla knows the blacksmith is doing what he's doing and it's absolutely approved.
Now please note this is all typed on my phone before work. Feel free to pick it apart and disagree I'll aim to be more charitable and argue my points back and forth when I have time
