I wanna hear about your experience with the Warrior Maidens from B4: The Lost City!

magnusmalkus

First Post
Howdy folks,

I was hoping to tap into your think tank...

I'm doing research for my labor-of-love project, a fully fleshed out, system neutral, modular campaign setting based on the Basic D&D adventure, B4: The Lost City.

I'm here because I'm interested in hearing other players and DM's experience pertaining to certain facets of this adventure. I'd love to hijack some great ideas, or at least, use the input as fodder to inspire further creative thought.

In particular, at this moment, I'm interested in how DM's played, and how Players interacted with, the Warrior Maidens of Madarua. The devil is in the details! Is there anyone who can describe the cultural style, group motivations, responsibilities, activities, hopes, fears, successes, failures, or secrets regarding the Warrior Maidens of Madarua?

I'm familiar on how the module presents them, but I do not feel bound to that description. I do have a general idea of what direction I'd like them to take based on the module information, but I find my pool of ideas to be rather shallow. I'm having a hard time satisfying my personal taste on how to portray this faction and an even harder time finding google images to support my chosen portrayals.

At any rate, I'd like to expand my concepts around the Warrior Maidens and I was hoping there were some among us that had experience with this module (and remembers!) who doesn't mind passing on what they've experienced.

So, what are your memories around the Warrior Maidens of Madarua?

Thanks for your help, folks!
 
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steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
It has been years and years...and now add on a few more years...since I've run through B4. But have used it several times and gods what a great module. Still have my copy.

My only real memory is using them pretty much as written. Added/played up the heavy "Amazon/Wonder Wom[e]n" vibe. Kinda bossy. Definitely played up the "want to deal with/listen to female PCs before they'll listen to a male" angle. Makes things kind of interesting (and/or a bit more difficult) when there's no females in the party. I remember some player RPing a big crush on one of them...not sure how that actually played out. Think we brought her on as an NPC for a while...total "Wonder Woman going to explore/experience the world of Men [outside the Lost City]" thing there.

So, pretty much what's on the tin...Warrior Maidens. Maybe altered the physical descriptions a bit to have them actual "Amazonian warrior women" as in taller/stronger (not supernaturally or anything, but as big/strong as the warrior men). Don't really remember much else. Sorry.

EDIT for final thought: Basically, I downplayed or never really explored/expanded the "Madarua/goddess" connection/angle. Just took the "Warrior Maidens" part and ran with it.
 
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magnusmalkus

First Post
I hear ya. And thanks for the input! Yeah, I'm going whole hog with fleshing out the various factions and trying to bring them to life beyond the outlines the original modules gave them. I've gone off the deep end with the other two factions and I wanted to give the Sisters of Madarua equal treatment. I'm thinking "hellenistic 'amazonesses' who are trying to model a 'New Cyndicea' as a Commune" but it's such a divergent mix of themes i'm having a hard time cobbling them together. But it's a start!
 

Alcamtar

Explorer
I am running this module now. I treated the overall culture as classical Greek/Milenian (frozen in time) which mainly affects personal names. The factions are those who refuse the drugs distributed by the Zargonites. Most citizens see the Zargonites as benefactors who give out free drugs; only a few families see this as a bad thing, and they are members of the secret cults. One of the PCs adventures was to rescue family members of a Madaruan who are not warriors but were captured by the Zargonites to use as leverage. So there is this counterculture movement who revere the old gods; the factions are militants. Not all the dissidents think that fighting is the solution, some feel the militants only earn reprisals for everyone else. The militants provide food and protection for the resistant families who are nonviolent.

The warrior maidens are feminists, but they will accept men who share their views. Basically they believe in decisive action. They despise the Gormites as cowards because they temper action with planning and prudence. The Madaruans believe in quick decisive action, relying on intuition and courage to carry them through. In my game they refused to go in disguise or use missile weapons. They chafed at any sort of planning or caution. They were first into every battle and last out - unafraid of death. They were suspicious of alliance, recklessly confident they could handle Zargon on their own, and disdainful of the methods and reliability of the others.

The party won their trust due to several female PCs. A female halflings got separated from the group, wandered into the usamagarus HQ, got beaten and left for dead in the corridor, was rescued by Madaruans. They were impressed by her bravery and small stature and the fact that she messed with the Mages all alone and survived. (The Mages were angry and beat her, but left her alive in a corridor - they aren't really evil)

Not a lot else. The Gormites trade with gnomes for supplies, but the Madaruans stage raids to capture theirs from Zargonites or goblins. IMC the factions do not operate openly but are hunted by the Zargonites. Each has a fortified secret hideout in town.

In a previous campaign, Pandora developed a crush on a male paladin who meet her standards of bravery and action. Of course she was bluntly forward about the whole thing.
 

magnusmalkus

First Post
That's excellent stuff! I too tried to give each of the factions a real reason NOT to work with each other and by making them distinctive and having their own agendas and ways. It seems you've conveyed those distinctions in only a few sentences within a few paragraphs! I'd find myself going on and on trying to illustrate how they were different yet the same... sounds like a good exercise in editing.

I'm going camping for the weekend, mind if i pick your brain when i get back to a pc next week?
 


magnusmalkus

First Post
Not at all, it helps me too

Ok, here's picking yer brain...

What justification did you have for the 3 factions to not be working together? A difference in dogmatic principles seemed too flimsy in the face of cultural extinction. You'd have thought they'd have thought to work together before. What could the adventurers do or say that would make any of the 3 factions reconsider allying together?

Did your players ask any any NPC's from the three factions for the most direct way down to the lost city; like a map or a guide? If so, did you give it to them? If you did not, what reason did you come up with to deny them the information?

If the Sacred Temples of the three Old Gods (found in the upper tiers) are so easy to find, why have the Zargonites not raided them? Same goes for the 'safe houses' in the city...? Why have the Zargonites not been able to oust them yet, given all the years and small size of the cavern?

How did you feel about the population size given in the module? How does a tyrant like Zargon keep up with his sacrificial needs with a city whose population is in attrition?

How prevalent are Zargonites among the people in the city? How do Zargonites react to the PC's when they spot them?

Did you flesh out the 'library' found in the Lost City?

What did you do with the island at the middle of the underground lake?

Did you come up with a prophecy?

Did you come up with a means to 'win' for Cyndicea? Did you develop any of the suggested plot points like The anti-drug from the rare flower in the catacombs below? The presence of the nearby Lich Barimore?

Have you red the fan-made, Dungeon Masters Guide to Cyndicea?
 
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Alcamtar

Explorer
I'm going to take these one at a time since they are all great questions. To start off I did user the fan DM guide to Cynidicea and incorporated a lot of that material.

My game is with a group of mostly newbies to gaming and D&D. We're using ACKS somewhat loosely. I've tried running the module a few times before but never got past a session or two before it fizzled out. This time I was very focused on completing it, and since this may be the only chance I'm expanding and embellishing to get as much out of it as I can.

I was inspired by Red Nails and my Cynidicea is more of a connected whole, rather than separate buildings as shown on the map. I initially described it with the streets roofed over and with an eerie deserted feeling (going for the dream aesthetic) but that has drifted to open streets with jumbled blocks of connected buildings and arcades. Somehow that was easier to visualize.

I felt the cavern was too small in the map, so mine is larger, maybe a mile across. My descriptions have been a bit vague on the size. The cavern glows from faint phosphorescent moss just enough to create a dim twilight. The eye of Zargon is an indistinct reddish smudge in the distance. The cavern is filed with fungus forests. I drew on gaz10 (orcas of thar) and gaz10 (shadow elves) for fungus types, including the biggiz (100' tall) but haven't done a good job of describing it to the players.

Our campaign uses a variant on Geoff Gander's outer beings for its cosmology. Immortals are not gods they are more like superheroes. An immortal is to mortal followers as Superman is to Metropolis: a protector, an ally, a big brother... but not a god. For that reason I have downplayed the mortal origins of Gorm, Madarua and Usamigaras. I haven't really resolved this yet for cynidicea and it hasn't come up. I think they are probably gods not Immortals. Zargon is an outer being servitor and a giant plot hook to draw the PCs into bigger and weirder adventures.
 
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Alcamtar

Explorer
What justification did you have for the 3 factions to not be working together? A difference in dogmatic principles seemed too flimsy in the face of cultural extinction. You'd have thought they'd have thought to work together before. What could the adventurers do or say that would make any of the 3 factions reconsider allying together?

Not sure I have anything that qualifies as a justification. We started playing and I took the situation as given, and made the explanations up as I went along in answer to questions. So instead of an exposition I will explain kind of how it went down.

The PCs met the Gormites first, killed some of them in a misunderstanding but finally came to terms. They learned about the Zargonites and the other factions. The brothers didn't know what "Zargon" was, only that the Zargonites were bad. They described the amazons as dangerously bloodthirsty, best avoided. The mages they felt were untrustworthy since they are secretive and rely on mysticism instead of clean steel. The gormites had other business and also had wounded to care for, so they didn't accompany the PCs but did part on friendly terms.

They PCs became separated, and a halfling wandering alone found her way into the Usamagaras shrine by punching buttons, talked to them and then ran into the back room and barricaded herself in... with the wolf, which killed her. She made her survival roll on the ACKS table but lost one of her eyes, and the Usamagari dumped her in the hallway unconscious. The general consensus was that the mages were shifty and were hiding something, they leader was a little too smug, and that the naked-baby-snake-god was weird and creepy, so obviously they were evil.

The PC was rescued by the Madaruans, who were impressed at this tiny woman warrior that infiltrated the Usamagaras shrine and survived, so they nursed her back to health. The amazons agreed to provide a guide and escort. They ran into hobgoblins, which the Madaruans immediately attacked in a courageous kamikaze charge and all died. The halfling survived again and found her way down to the lower level and met up with the rest of the group, who had explored their way down without help. At the lower level they ran into Madaruans, who recognized the halfling and escorted them on down to the city.

The PCs did not really explore the pyramid, they heard they were dying of hunger and thirst so made a beeline for the city they heard about below.

Did your players ask any any NPC's from the three factions for the most direct way down to the lost city; like a map or a guide? If so, did you give it to them? If you did not, what reason did you come up with to deny them the information?

Yes the halfling asked the Madaruans for a guide and they agreed. I was not happy about this but since the PCs were separated it worked out: the main group still had to find their own way, and I had a convenient escort for the lone PC who probably would have died otherwise.

Also, the faction leaders were all busy with assorted business and could only offer assistance in the form of a warrior or three. The warriors were junior recruits with limited knowledge.

As it worked out:

The Madaruans are feminists who don't trust men, or want to be told what to do by men. They mock caution as cowardice, refused to disguise themselves, and refused to use ranged weapons. They feel that massacring the Zargon priests in a frontal assault is the best plan of action, but are constantly distracted staging raids and taking revenge for assorted atrocities. Their sect is illegal in Cynidicea and the populace generally dislikes them because they are seen as dangerous terrorists. They get their supplies by raiding, taking them by force. They have a "barbarian code of honor" thing going on; they are not stupid, but their warrior code drives them to a swords-before-brains approach to all problems. Madarua will bless them with success if they are courageous and fearless and bold enough. So they continuously antagonize the Zargonites.

The Gormites are careful planners and strategizers, and disdainful of anyone who is impetuous. They get their supplies by trading with the gnomes, distribute it to needy families in the resistance, and go in disguise. They believe that slow and steady wins the race, and are focused on surviving more than defeating the Zargonites. They stay invisible as much as possible, and are happy to let the Madaruans draw the Zargonite attention. They believe a coup needs to be carefully planned and executed to have any hope of success, and find the Madaruans impossible to work with. While they are courageous and doughty enough in a fight, they are over-cautious and slow to get anything done. Their sect is also illegal but rarely in the crosshairs.

The Usamagari are fairly neutral. The leader is an agent for the lich Gaius, who plots to return as the "once and future" eternal king of Cynidicea. His plan is to cause the other factions to destroy each other through infighting, while securing the loyalty of the Usamagari by feeding them magical secrets and trinkets. His agents are working to raise an undead army against the Zargonites. Some of the magi are spies and assassins for Gaius, but most of them are unwitting. Their leaders keep them carefully neutral and hidden while stirring up conflict between Gormites and Madaruans and Zargonites, and prepping their zombie apocalypse. (Barimoor is keeping a close eye on all of this. Gaius is a potential rival and must not be allowed to become too powerful.) The Usamagari deliberately bait the Gormites and Madaruans.

All the factions have the same goal: to restore Cynidicea. They disagree on what that looks like and how to accomplish it. IMC, when the PCs arrived the three factions were literally fighting each other. Each had a safehouse with a secret entry and a special ritual to gain access, and attack the other factions on sight... like in Red Nails. Its not that they hate each other, its that they are so suspicious they are afraid of being tricked. They believe if they are captured they will be tortured or killed. In reality, they mostly avoid each other.

The PCs befriended both the Gormites and the Madaruans and found both to be intelligent and reasonable. They then arranged a meeting. The Gormites would not submit to Pandora, and the Madaruans would not submit to Kanadius, so the PCs offered a better solution: they would lead the alliance as a neutral third party, and this was acceptable to both. They still refused to work together or open their safe houses, instead they each allocated warriors to work with the PCs. The PCs then somehow (I don't recall how) managed to bring the Usamigari into the alliance. Gaius decided to work with the PCs while he studied them and decided how to use them for his own ends, so the mages they received included a spy who reports all their activities back to Auriga and thence to Gaius. (more on Gaius later...)

If the Sacred Temples of the three Old Gods (found in the upper tiers) are so easy to find, why have the Zargonites not raided them? Same goes for the 'safe houses' in the city...? Why have the Zargonites not been able to oust them yet, given all the years and small size of the cavern?

I think they are not easy to find. IMC the Cynidiceans make an annual pilgrimage to the pyramid to honor their ancestors, but the way to the upper pyramid is labyrinthine. Some Zargonites probably find their way up there, but the factions kill them if they are found. In my game they never came up in wandering encounters in the pyramid, and I finally decided they don't go there much and don't actually know about the shrines. They know there are ancient shrines there, yes, but those aren't the secret bases, so whenever they visit nobody is there. IMC the leader are often going to the pyramid on business, but they don't stay up there.

Also IMC the cavern is much larger, with many crevices and connections to the underdark and a vast area to search. The Zargonites also have politics of their own that limit their effectiveness. A lot of this is their reliance on goblins and hobgoblins to do their dirty work - those creatures are not the most reliable, and tend to get into mischief. After infiltrating the Zargon temple and having a showdown with the priests, the PCs are now known by sight. The priests put the word out that anyone who sees them should report them. They have sent out hunter patrols with goblin warriors, goblin trackers, goblin assassins, and priest leaders to find them, but these patrols keep not returning....

IMC the Madaruans staged a jailbreak at one point, which caused the Zargonites to send goblins into the streets and send out hunting parties. There was sporadic fighting around the city, but the factions fade into the woodwork. The Madaruans are bold individualists, but not stupid. Instead of group planning they rely in personal intuition and cleverness to formulate tactics on the spot... they are skirmishers, who attack and then slip away, each one responsible only for herself.

The safe houses are carefully hidden. I did not consider how they survived over time. Possibly there are multiple safe houses, and if one is compromised they just move elsewhere. I think too that resistance has not been steady. Technically the religions are still permitted, it is the "extremist sects" that are outlawed. The armed opposition may be a fairly recent development, possibly a result of the alarming depopulation of the city. Possibly there has been opposition in the past, and the Zargonites succeeded in destroying it, and this is only the most recent manifestation of discontent.

How did you feel about the population size given in the module? How does a tyrant like Zargon keep up with his sacrificial needs with a city whose population is in attrition?

IMC the city is dying. Most of it is abandoned, giving it a deserted feel. It is perhaps only 1/10 of its original size. The PCs were informed that the population is dying because the Zargonites take the citizens, they take them faster than children are born. (I added encounters with children. Mostly creepy encounters.) The people willingly let themselves be taken; most citizens are Zargonites, and I staged a religious ceremony where they people receive drugs and the "chosen" offer themselves to the priests, so the PCs could watch this happening. Lots of drugs and white robes and creepy cultic brainwashing stuff.

The Zargonites are depopulating the city, and the factions realize it will be dead soon: the priests will take them all. I think I said the sacrifices have increased of late, the doom is accelerating. I have not considered what the Zargonite priests think about all of this.

How prevalent are Zargonites among the people in the city? How do Zargonites react to the PC's when they spot them?
Very prevalent, almost the entire populace are Zargon worshippers. Not that they really care, but Zargon provides all their food and their drugs, and lets them spend their lives in an ecstatic dream. (Most of them only spend about half their time in this state, they actually do work when semi-sober.) They see Zargon as a harmless benefactor that dispenses goodies, and the factions are killjoys and terrorists that want to ruin it for everyone. Why can't they get with the program? Much of this is because their minds are clouded by drugs, even when not in dreamland they still cant think straight, plus the true nature of Zargon is carefully hidden so that he appears to be good.

The factions are the red pill types who have realized something is wrong, and once they get really free of the drugs (which can take weeks or months) they see things clearly. They sometimes rescue citizens to sober them up, but the real solution is to get rid of the priest and the drugs. So they see their fellow citizens as deluded children, lambs to the slaughter. They try to protect them.

The people inform the Zargon priests of any subversive activity: reporting a troublemaker is rewarded with a dose of really good drugs. So all the populace is in on it, albeit they are brainwashed.

Did you flesh out the 'library' found in the Lost City?

No, I mentioned it hoping the PCs would go there, so I could give them more backstory, but they didn't bite. Under the library I put a catacomb filled with hundreds of ghouls. Not sure that counts as fleshing out. Gaius has plans to gain control of them through a special artifact...

What did you do with the island at the middle of the underground lake?

Botched it? lol

I had decided it was connected with the outer beings, something to do with Zargon's masters and planar portals or something. Naturally the PCs decided right off the bat it was where Zargon lived. I mean "Isle of Death?" It sounds obvious. So they visited.

The thing is, they had said they were going to do something else so I prepped for that. Instead they suddenly surprised me by sailing for the island. Pretty sure it was intentional, they were trying to throw me a curve ball. I had only a vague notion of what was there and was ad libbing the whole time.

I tried to scare them off with something large in the lake that was terrifying the NPCs, but they ignored it. Then I put weird non-euclidian ruins on the hill with glowing purple runes (which they naturally cast read languages on. doh!) surronding a mountain of blackened bones. At this point i was stalling, scratchig out tunnel maps while they poked around on the hill. I had shadows chase them around a bit. Then they found a tunnel that led past some strange rooms and finally into a circular portal room with five planar gates. No encounters so far because I had only a vague notion of what might be in there, and no time to think about it or stat it up. By now I realized I had missed the chance to make this interesting: it was all just empty tunnels, and they were asking why is it so taboo there is nothing dangerous here? Very frustrating. I hd them find a room with a sacrificial "black pool" and an inscription to something that lived beyond the stars. They found that eerie (success!) so left quickly and looked for more stuff (crap! now what?). Still certain they could find Zargon. I was drawing blanks. So I had vast numbers of undead march out of the tunnels and surround them, forcing a retreat.

I intended them to come back here when they are 10+ level, after defeating Zargon, to learn about his masters and go plane hopping through Carnifex ruins. I wanted it to be epic and weird and a teaser for future high level adventures, but felt it turned out kind of boring and underwhelming and lame and embarrassingly heavy-handed. Oops. Should have just had a sea monster pop out of the lake and eat their boat.

Did you come up with a prophecy?

No.

I did use idea #7 the True King:

They never explored the pyramid so never recovered Alexander's sword or Zenobia's crown. (What little exploration they did do, they were careful not to touch any treasures, since those were sacred to the Cynidiceans and did not belong to them. Clearly no experience with how things work in D&D.... lol!)

Anyway I decided that when Zargon took over the royal family fled to another cavern and founded another sister city, which I named riverside or something equally lame. The royal heir still lived there and he could return and claim his rightful place as king... but he can only prove his claim with the Sword and the Crown. I then sent the PCs to the other city with a gnome guide, ostensibly to gather drug antidote flowers and trade with the gnomes, but really so they could accidentally meet the heir. They did so last session, got totally distracted by the mysterious being that now rules there, but finally convinced the heir to return with them. They were surprised that a year ago a mysterious stranger was also asking after the heir (a barimoor agent). Gaius is going to be veeery interested in this development. heh heh. Anyway this now sets them up for a quest into the pyramid to recover the royal tokens.

Did you come up with a means to 'win' for Cyndicea? Did you develop any of the suggested plot points like The anti-drug from the rare flower in the catacombs below? The presence of the nearby Lich Barimore?

Sort of. Gaius the Lich will let them recover the sword and crown, then steal these (through his Usamagaras agents) and probably attempt to assassinate the heir. By that time after exploring the pyramid they'll maybe have earned enough XP to defeat the Priests and kill Zargon.

If they do defeat Zargon, Gaius will make his move, arriving with his army of undead and the royal regalia to claim the throne. They'll have to deal with the lich, and if they don't then Barimoor will probably get involved, which will be bad for everyone. By the time that's all resolved, Zargon will probably have respawned and they'll have to dispose of his horn. Ultimately the factions will administer anti-drugs, snap the people out of it, the heir will take the throne, and everyone lives happily ever after. Except the PCs who now realize that the Isle of the Dead is a gateway to the Beings that live Behind the Stars, setting up high level adventures. (Plus they already met some mysterious Troglodytes skulking in the tunnels underneath the temple of Zargon and enemies of everyone. Those are probably degenerate outer being servitors who will play some apocalyptic role at the end.) They may also discover the Burrower nearby.

Along the way to the sister city they harvested some anti-drug flowers, but these were "guarded" by Dusanu. And in the sister city they met a gnome alchemist who can turn the flowers into an antidote. So I think there's another quest to manufacture antidote on an industrial scale, enough to free the whole city.

None of this is set in stone. I run it like a sandbox so this is conjecture based on the motivations and plots I am currently dealing with, plus half baked ideas where I might use. I'll figure it out if and when we get that far. But I do plan to defeat Zargon and free the city, I will consider it "won" at that point.
 

magnusmalkus

First Post
None of this is set in stone. I run it like a sandbox so this is conjecture based on the motivations and plots I am currently dealing with, plus half baked ideas where I might use. I'll figure it out if and when we get that far. But I do plan to defeat Zargon and free the city, I will consider it "won" at that point.


This is amazing stuff. Thank you for sharing it. You've simplified the dynamic between the three quite nicely and yet, made them so distinct.

One last important thing... I see you lured them deeper in the adventure with the threat of thirst and starvation, but what kept them there? How did you get them personally interested/invested in the whole conflict after the threat of survival was gone?

Most times I try to forgo the emergency circumstances and try to find some other way to expose the PC's to the sandbox. I would have an easy job if I could count on the PC's moral codes of goodness and heroism to get them involved, or even if it was just their greed for wealth and/or power which drove them on. But not many PC's, in my experience, take up that agenda. Only once: I had a druid who saw an imbalance in the situation and wanted to work to bring Cyndicea back to it's rightful center. Zargon was seen as an abomination to nature and the druid made it his agenda to destroy it.

I found the hook given in the Dungeon Magazine adventure "The Masque of Dreams" (where goblins abduct the noblewoman and take her to zargon) to be effective in getting the ball rolling. Unfortunately, the one time I used this hook, they lost track of their abducted quarry and wound up milling about the upper tiers of the ziggurat. I think I overwhelmed the group with the labyrinth corridors in the upper tiers and myriads of monster encounters. I wanted them to explore, so I did not hand them the path to Cyndicea. I had justifications for everything, but it was just too much, so that group lost interest.

The only way I ever solidly got the PC's involved in the core storyline (the conflict with Zargon), an actual investment of character, was the time when a player and I agreed to have his amnesiac PC turn out to be the 'lost' heir to the throne (after being visited by a prophet, being given an item of power, then attacked by assassins). Accepting the mantle, he gathered his loyal companions, the other PC's, and led them along his 'destined' path. Everyone was ok with it and they all went into it with the expectation of engaging whatever lied in their path.

How did you get the PC's beyond the 'thirst and starvation' hook?
 

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