Speculation about "the feelz" of D&D 4th Edition

[Garthanos]

I think you'd find that you were basically giving up your class features in return for a few added feats. My guess is a hybrid will achieve as much but still get class features.

What if a defender stance granted THP ... instead of the class giving higher hp...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

What if a defender stance granted THP ... instead of the class giving higher hp...

Well, I'm not saying you couldn't just construct all of the various roles by taking certain powers (and feats no doubt as well). Except for controllers though the powers don't really exist to give you something as fully defenderish as a fighter. Nor would you be able to pick up the tricks of a Warden or the HUGE durability thereof which makes a lot of them feasible.

So, yeah, 4e could add powers that provided 'defending' as a thing (probably some stances, basically along the lines of what Knights get, but better). Likewise you could simplistically make a striker as just a guy with some extra high damage powers. A leader wouldn't be too hard really either, basically.

Of course the result would be no roles at all. Characters would simply pick elements they wanted, but with no guarantee that it all gells into something that is usable. That's fine for players, they get what they want, but I'm not convinced it makes it a good idea to include.

Anyway, as it stands you'd be a weak striker/leader/defender, but you could be a perfectly good wizard! hehe.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, I'm not saying you couldn't just construct all of the various roles by taking certain powers (and feats no doubt as well).

Generally speaking it would be an overhaul with a lot of new role defining powers required...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Generally speaking it would be an overhaul with a lot of new role defining powers required...

I think what you'd want to do is have a set of starting packages. Either class features, or class feature turned into powers, that model the roles and niche of most of the classes.

I'd also be wary of mixing at wills that easily.

 

[Garthanos]

I think what you'd want to do is have a set of starting packages. Either class features, or class feature turned into powers, that model the roles and niche of most of the classes.

I'd also be wary of mixing at wills that easily.

Just make sure to nerf wizard powers... so that you can create the modifier ummm features / stances or whatever.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I wonder how much influence Savage Worlds had on the design of 4E?

I can see a few things:
- fewer powers plus the emphasis on re-skinning;
- PCs (wild cards) vs minions (I forget the SW term);
- monsters built differently to PCs; and
- simplifying things for the DM.

I am sure there are more but I haven't picked up SW in a while. I know the time I spent learning SW seemed to help me grok 4E.

 

[Garthanos]

- PCs (wild cards) vs minions (I forget the SW term);

1e had special rules for getting more attacks against sub 1 hit die monsters

- monsters built differently to PCs; and

And 1e had monsters built different than the pcs usually different saving throws they didnt have attributes necessarily etc ... I think enemy mages were the exception but I may be having memory leaks.


I think D&D had the most influence on writing D&D

 

[MwaO]

TYou've captured the 5e fighter (and thus 2e fighter) pretty well.

Appalling. ;O

Lol.

But seriously, there's a group of players who in a certain sense, are just there to beat things up in the most simple, straightforward way possible. And that could have been Ranger, but there was no two-handed Twin Strike option. And it was named 'Ranger', not 'Barbarian 2/Fighter X'

 

[Tony Vargas]

But seriously, there's a group of players who in a certain sense, are just there to beat things up in the most simple, straightforward way possible.

I'm familiar with the 'wake me when the fight starts' stereotype, and the more absolute version of it that crystallized in the course of the edition war. And, I've certainly known many players over the year who would be put in that box, not quite one in every group, but many.

But, like all stereotypes based in truth, it's an incomplete picture of an individual, and it over-simplifies, and, more recently, is treated as absolute, rather than a preference that may be flexible or is likely to change over time.

And, even if the stereotype were a complete picture of the player type, and they were absolute and unchanging in their strict adherence to it (which is a terrible thing to believe about a person), it still wouldn't be fair to restrict them to one character class or character concept.

In short, by all means, have simple or default 'builds' that play simply and are viable if you never look past the middle of the first page of the character sheet. But leave them room to contribute outside of combat, and to grow in options and depth if the player ever wishes for that.

Because, I've seen players who can be fit to the stereotype, as I've said, but I've also seen them defy it (or 'grow out of it,' though that's a condescending implication), frequently. Especially when treated like they have a choice.

And that could have been Ranger, but there was no two-handed Twin Strike option. And it was named 'Ranger', not 'Barbarian 2/Fighter X'

Different stereotype.

 

[Lanefan]

1e had special rules for getting more attacks against sub 1 hit die monsters

Yep. And it's surprising how infrequently this ever came/comes up in play.

And 1e had monsters built different than the pcs usually different saving throws they didnt have attributes necessarily etc.

Again true as written; in some cases it's fine but in others overruling the RAW and giving the monsters credit for their attributes just makes sense (e.g. the average Giant would in theory have a Constitution score similar to that of a battleship and they should get a save bonus to reflect that).

... I think enemy mages were the exception but I may be having memory leaks.

Enemy NPCs (i.e. those with classes, levels, etc.) worked, I think, more or less just like PCs. Not all published modules bother to stat them out, however, which is often a bloody nuisance.

I think D&D...

...and, in my case, beer...

...had the most influence on writing D&D

Lanefan