A Master Spy NPC

[Gray Lensman]

Okay, I need a Master Spy NPC, Level Adjustment doesn't matter so I was thinking of going with a Doppleganger Rogue 5, Chameleon 10.

My biggest question is what other PrC I can take on after Chameleon. It's okay to go into epic levels with this one as well.

These Are the Books I have, Plus whatever I can glean from the web
PHB 3.5
PHB II
MM
DMG
Comp Divine, Arcane, Adventurer, Warrior, Scoundrel
Eldritch Might I, II, III
Races of Destiny, Stone and Wild and Races of the Dragon
Savage Species
Epic Level handbook
Arms and Equipment Guide
Tome of battle
and just got Dungeonscape and Cityscape

Thoughts, Comments, Questions, even Dandu's wit are welcome

 

[Jimlock]

Complete Adventurer p76: SPYMASTER

A 7 level PrC. HD6, 8 skill points, all the class skills you need... cool abilities... and... at 7th level you get:

Deep Cover (EX)!!!!

When under cover identity (a fake persona of your liking... and you have a few...), ALL divinations

detect information appropriate to the cover identity, which means that you get an (Ex) that utterly protects your real you from divinations!

 

[Jeffrie]

Yeah, i'm havin' trouble improving on that.. . .

To take 7 in spymaster and reach rapid refocus and 6th level spells at chameleon9 you only have 4 levels left.

Unless you think the 2d6 SA is role play, or fixes your damage, you might consider 'martial rogue' from srd. You would aqcuire 3 extra fighter feats in 4 levels as trade for your SA. It would leave you free to spend your regular feats in other places.

OTOH i hear that SA is great for making fixed damage into variable damage for purpose of some multipliers?

 

[Thanael]

Being a doppelganger i believe you don't need 5 levels of Rogue to enter Chameleon, as you got 4 level of monstrous humanoid HD already and Bluff, Disguise and Sense Motive are doppelgang class skills. So all you need is one more class level (preferably with Spellcraft and the other three skills needed as a class skill) to enter Chameleon.

Are you sure about doppleganger as a race? Why not go for Greater Doppelganger then? You don't even need all those class levels that much then.

Mind Spy from Complete Warror is a nice prc for a doppleganger. Master of Masks from Complete Scoundrel is available online and another prc suited especially well for doppelgangers though it's more suited for NPCs/BBEGs than PCs.

There's also the epic infiltrator prc from the SRD which is very similar to the Spymaster, but different too.

For much more doppleganger goodness (detailed ecology/psychology etc) check out the Van Richten Society's Guide to Doppelgangers netbook from the Fraternity of Shadows.

Or if you want to tone down the monstrous class, why not use a changeling Rog/Spymaster/chameleon and be sure to take the changeling alternate class features for the Rogue levels.

Generally for feats I would check out Complete Adventurer.

A few sample builds/relevant threads:
Chameleon builds/entries
Chameleon Compilation

 

[Thanael]

Check out the thread Doppelganger Mindspy/Chameleon Assassin for two excellent detailed builds of "I Am You, a doppelganger assassin".

I Am You, CR 10 ( NE Doppelganger Warrior 1/Mindspy 2/Chameleon 5) complete with different personas
and
I Am You, CR 23 (NE Half-Fiend, Advanced (7 HD) Doppelganger Mindspy 5/Chameleon 10/Warshaper 2)

 

[Gray Lensman]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION]: I think I may be mixing Chameleon and Mindspy now that I have considered the combo.

[MENTION=22734]Thanael[/MENTION]: I think your right about not needing 5 levels, the Doppleganger gets 7x(2+Int Mod) for starting skills. And thanks for the links.


Actually after rereading the Chameleon PrC, I do believe that I will go Bard for the spellcasting start and Bardic Abilities (I don't really need backstab as it's not an assasin type NPC) since mimicing the rogue abilities is part of Chameleon while mimicing the Bard abilities isn't. This also allows me a cover as a Bard while traveling inbetween assignments

And since Epic level is okay there is no reason I can't do all the levels of Chameleon, Mind Spy and Spymaster.

 

[Gray Lensman]

Doppelganger Bard/Chamelion/Mind Spy/SpyMaster Build

4d6 drop lowest times 7 drop lowest= (threw away a 10)
14
11
11
12
10
13

Okay, where to put them.

Chameleon use arcane spells as Wizard so INT is Important
divine spells as cleric so WIS is Important
Dexterity is important for the Rogue Abilities
Strenght for mimicing the Fighter
Constitution for Hit Point and Saves
Charisma for Interacting with people

WOW! talk about MAD

Doppleganger gets +4 to WIS and +2 to everrything else so that
helps.

So - Where to put the scores
STR 10+2=12(+1)
DEX 12+2=14(+2)
CON 11+2=13(+1)
INT 14+2=16(+3) for skills and bonus spells
WIS 12+4=16(+3) for bonus divine spells
CHA 11+2=13(+1)

Now, Doppleganger gets 7X(2+INT) for starting skills so 35 starting
skill points and two feats (one of which must be Able Learner which
has to be taken at first level) Even Cross Class skills now only
cost 1 point although maximum skill levels do not change.
and the Dopppleganger gets 4d8 HP before taking a class level, right?

PrC Prereq for Chamelion is Able Learner Feat
Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4

So, these skills are all Bard Class Skills, yet since max skill level is
3+Character level, I still can't qualify for Chameleon until Bard 5.

In fact, the the other 2 PrCs also require a skill rank of 8 so I
have to be level 5 in anything, unless .....

Do Monster get skills to the level of thier LA? Hmm... Seems that
the MM I has the Doppleganger listed as having 10 in bluff plus 9 in
Diguise which wouldn't even be right at that so skip that.

I'll go with them starting LA 4 which gives skills at max 7 in class
skills so I will have to take at least one class level before going
into the Prestige Classes. Which is Okay since I need Spellcraft 4
and can get it at Bard 1.

Okay, playing a Doppleganger I can take 1 level of Bard and then be
qualified for Chameleon AND Spymaster if I take the Doppleganger's
second feat as Skill Focus (Bluff) AND Mind Spy if I make sure to
have 8 ranks in Concenttration. Which means I can actually mix and
match the three PrCs as needed to get the best skills at each ECL.

Oh, I guess that also means I can go through Bard 1/Chameleon 10/
Spymaster 7/Mind Spy 5 by 23 CL (27 ECL)

Should make an interresting character.

Now to figure out if mix/matching the three PrCs is worth it.

 

[Jimlock]

I say you reroll the dice

IMHO, CHA is too low for such a character.

 

[kitcik]

I say you reroll the dice

IMHO, CHA is too low for such a character.

I agree.

First, re-roll. You got below the suggested minimum.

I would do:
Int>Cha>Con>Dex>Str>Wis (keeping in mind Wis gets a pop from the Doppleganger)

 

[Gray Lensman]

Yeah, Maybe, but...


Ok, Lets Build the Character Sanstilikus

Male Doppleganger Bard 1/Chameleon 10/Mind Spy 5/Masterspy 7

STR 10+2=12(+1)
DEX 12+2=14(+2)
CON 11+2=14(+2)+1@12th
INT 14+2=16(+3)
WIS 12+4=16(+3)
CHA 11+2=14(+2)+1@8th

Has Doppleganger He gets 35 skill points, 2 feats, 4d8 Hit Dice, BAB +4. Fort +1, Ref +4 and Will +4

BAB +4. Fort +1, Ref +4 and Will +4
Hit Points: 25 (7,7,4,3) +4 CON bonus
Feats: Able Learner and Skill Focus (Bluff)
Racial Skills: Bluff 7, Disguise 7, Sense Motive 7, Listen 7, Spot 7

As 1st level Bard (ECL 5) he gets 1d6 Hit Die, 9 Skill Points and no feats, BAB+0, Fort +0, Ref +2 and Will +2

BAB +4. Fort +1, Ref +6 and Will +6
Hit Points: 29 (7,7,4,3,3) +5 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner and Skill Focus (Bluff)
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 7, Listen 7, Spot 7
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 5

Still Can't Qualify for Spymaster or Mind Spy so it's off To Chameleon land we go.

As 1st level Chameleon (ECL 6) he Gets 1d8 Hit Die, 7 Skill Points and one feat, BAB+0, Fort +0, Ref +0 and Will +0

BAB +4. Fort +1, Ref +6 and Will +6
Hit Points: 33 (7,7,4,3,3,3) +6 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and (1)???
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 7, Listen 7, Spot 7
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 4

He now qualifies for the Mind Spy Prc as well but it's skill points per level are only 2+INT so I will stay Chameleon for now.

As 2st level Chameleon (ECL 7) he Gets 1d8 Hit Die, 7 Skill Points and one bonus feat, BAB+1, Fort +0, Ref +0 and Will +0
BAB +5, Fort +1, Ref +6 and Will +6
Hit Points: 42 (7,7,4,3,3,3,8) +7 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and ??? and Daily Changeable Bonus Feat
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 7, Listen 7, Spot 7
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 4, Forgery 4, Gather Information 3

Still need 1 more level to qualify for Spymaster So .....

As 3rd level Chameleon (ECL 8) he Gets 1d8 Hit Die, 7 Skill Points, BAB+1, Fort +1, Ref +1 and Will +1, (+1 Ability Score=CHA)
BAB +6, Fort +2, Ref +7 and Will +7
Hit Points: 47 (7,7,4,3,3,3,8,4) +8 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and ??? and Daily Changeable Bonus Feat
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 7, Listen 7, Spot 7
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 4, Forgery 4, Gather Information 4, Use Magic Device 6

So as a Doppleganger Bard 1/Chameleon 3 he Qualifies for both other PrCs, should we dip one of them now or go with Chameleon 4 to get the Ability Boon Class ability? Yeah, I think so.

As 4rd level Chameleon (ECL 9) he Gets 1d8 Hit Die, 7 Skill Points, BAB+1, Fort +0, Ref +0 and Will +0, and a Feat

BAB +7, Fort +2, Ref +7 and Will +7
Hit Points: 53 (7,7,4,3,3,3,8,4,5) +9 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and (1)???, (2)??? and Daily Changeable Bonus Feat
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 8, Listen 8, Spot 8
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 5, Forgery 5, Gather Information 5, Use Magic Device 7

Now to dip the other two, first the Spymaster will give me 11 skill point per level (I should have some rogue skills and knowledge Arcana and Religion to play my roles, yes?) so I think I will take it to level 3 to get Cover Identity, Undetectable Alignment (Important in my profession) Scrying Defense (I doubt changing diguises faster will me that much to a Doppleganger like me), Magic Aura (to hide my rings, cloaks and whatnot) and Sneak Attack in case I do need it (I deal in Information and Disinformation, not bodies My Lord)

As 1st level Spymaster (ECL 10) he Gets 1d6 Hit Die, 11 Skill Points, BAB+0, Fort +0, Ref +2 and Will +0

BAB +7, Fort +2, Ref +9 and Will +7
Hit Points: 59 (7,7,4,3,3,3,8,4,5,3) +10 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and (1)???, (2)??? and Daily Changeable Bonus Feat
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 8, Listen 8, Spot 8
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 5, Forgery 5, Gather Information 5, Use Magic Device 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) 4, Disable Device 3

As 2nd level Spymaster (ECL 11) he Gets 1d6 Hit Die, 11 Skill Points, BAB+1, Fort +0, Ref +1 and Will +0

BAB +8, Fort +2, Ref +10 and Will +7
Hit Points: 62 (7,7,4,3,3,3,8,4,5,3,2) +11 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and (1)???, (2)??? and Daily Changeable Bonus Feat
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 8, Listen 8, Spot 8
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 5, Forgery 5, Gather Information 5, Use Magic Device 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) 4, Disable Device 3, Open Locks 4, Hide 4, Move Silenty 4, Decipher Script 3

As 3rd level Spymaster (ECL 12) he Gets 1d6 Hit Die, 11 Skill Points, BAB+1, Fort +1, Ref +0 and Will +1, a feat and +1 Ability Bonus= CON

BAB +9, Fort +3, Ref +10 and Will +8
Hit Points: 79 (7,7,4,3,3,3,8,4,5,3,2,6) +24 CON Bonus
Feats: Able Learner, Skill Focus (Bluff) and (1)???, (2)??? (3)??? and Daily Changeable Bonus Feat
Racial Skills: Bluff 8, Disguise 8, Sense Motive 8, Listen 8, Spot 8
Class Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 5, Forgery 5, Gather Information 5, Use Magic Device 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) 4, Disable Device 3, Open Locks 4, Hide 4, Move Silenty 4, Decipher Script 4, Perform (Music) 5, Sleight of Hand 5

So far .....