D&D 5E A Proper Ability Score Generation Preference Poll

[Oofta]

Nice. You claim that you can accurately guess the stats of any character created with point buy or standard array, but, when actually asked to do so, you claim that it cannot be done. Note, I guess for accuracy's sake, it was a Hunter build.

You got the Dex correct at least. Granted, Con was wrong and since you wouldn't actually step up to your claims, it's pretty hard to say right or wrong.

So, do you still stand behind that claim? You can guess a PC's array?

Note, why would you track ammo for a javelin thrower? You do realize that you don't actually destroy the javelins after throwing them right? Carry a half dozen or so javelins, or even a dozen wouldn't be that hard, and you're good to go.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for his guess on my dwarven rogue. I promise I won't cheat (I looked up my old character sheet), or how about my half-elven fighter that I hope to play soon?

I agree that some people will build to whatever the char op boards tell them is "best". Some people will build characters that are defined by their ability scores. Personally? I build characters that make sense for who they are and what story I want to tell. I suppose sometimes that happens to follow the "standard" build (I wouldn't know, I've never read a char op thread), other times it doesn't.

Last, but not least, ability scores have very little to do with the character being played. D&D is not some MMO where the only thing that matters is how many points they've dumped into stamina.

 

[smbakeresq]

Alert is great for a Ranger. Guarantee winning initiative and gain advantage on your first two (or three with hoard breaker) shots? Fantastic. Not sure why you think it's an outlier. And, you got one right. I did say that. The others were all wrong (granted, you only picked two others). But, fair enough, let's go the other way.

I have 5 PC's in the Primeval Thule campaign I DM:

Halfling Ranger (beastmaster),
Human (variant) Ranger (Hunter) ,
Human (Variant) Paladin 5/Ranger 1 (Oath of Devotion),
Human Monk (Open Hand) and
Human Thief (Mastermind).

All 6th level. All made with point buy.

Let's see you match the stats to the class. (stats are listed in order of Str ,Dex,Con, Int, Wis, Cha)

8,18,16,10,10,12
8,18,10,8,14,15
9,16,14,13,11,15
8,18,14,10,14,12
13,18,14,11,15,9

There ya go. No calling me a liar now. No weaseling out. Let's see you put your money where your mouth is. You flat out said you could always tell where the stats would fall, so, show us.

So you still didn’t post the PC you created and said I was wrong on, instead you posted 5 more? You never put your money up at all.

You get the point, I stuck it right in the middle of your forehead.

bye!


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[JonnyP71]

Question on this. How do you do treasure shares? In all the groups I played in cash was shared out evenly and magic items were given to whoever could get the most use out of it.

That's one of the rules I use when I DM, and I make it clear during session 0.

If a party thief wants to do some stealing for personal gain then they'll be doing it alone, and from townsfolk/NPCs.

Any loot found while adventuring as a group is automatically 'party treasure' to be shared out fairly. If the thief steals something in a dungeon then it will be stolen from the dungeon and put into 'party treasure'. If they steal from a fellow PC then they will be stealing from 'party treasure' and it will be added back into 'party treasure' - ie nothing will happen!

Some players pull a face, but overall it helps with party cohesion.

 

[smbakeresq]

Yeah, I'm still waiting for his guess on my dwarven rogue. I promise I won't cheat (I looked up my old character sheet), or how about my half-elven fighter that I hope to play soon?

I agree that some people will build to whatever the char op boards tell them is "best". Some people will build characters that are defined by their ability scores. Personally? I build characters that make sense for who they are and what story I want to tell. I suppose sometimes that happens to follow the "standard" build (I wouldn't know, I've never read a char op thread), other times it doesn't.

Last, but not least, ability scores have very little to do with the character being played. D&D is not some MMO where the only thing that matters is how many points they've dumped into stamina.

It’s not about best, it’s about variety and Pc generation. I guess you didn’t notice that he STILL didn’t post the PC, instead challenged me again with 5 new PCs, that’s he sign of a loser.

And BTW you have posted in PC Opp threads and guides, I guess you posted without reading them?


This is going nowhere except people desperate to protect their arrays and point buy methods for no reason other then to win on the forums.

I didn’t see your post about rogue otherwise I would have done it. It’s all the same with arrays any way, best stat into primary, best odd into whatever you get +1 racial in, best even into what you get +2 racial in, dump stats into dump abilities, etc. 13 or 14 into something if you intend to MC into something that doesn’t use your primary. The land of 8 STR wizard, 8 INT barbs, etc.

That’s the point of this thread and others, arrays and point buy are largely repetitive and boring, and rolling in no way wrecks the game. It’s the fear of someone rolling better than you that drives most people from rolling. You can see it in the posts, it’s “unfair” not “balanced” or “breaks the game” etc.

Rolling does none of those things. If you are afraid of a person cheating on their rolls why would you play with them? Call them out. Or, as I have suggested, roll in front of everyone.


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[smbakeresq]

The defenders of arrays and point buy basically claim the following is true

1. Rolling breaks the game
2. Rolling create overwhelming PC
3. Rolling destroys play balance
4. Rolling creates too much variety
5. You can’t trust other players, they always cheat if you let them roll
6. Rolling is inherently random you could get a weak PC.
7. Rolling could make your PC worse then someone else’s which
8. Would force your PC into a subservient role.


Look at those arguments, some are contradictory, some are just false. Rolling for stats doesn’t break the game or anything like that, it doesn’t destroy play balance. I guess it’s possible if you rolled 3-4 18s, but the game will balance that out as you go up since your scope is capped anyway. Why would anyone ever play with someone you think would cheat on die rolls is beyond me. Variety is good for the game, if you want to have fun try a PC with low ability score and play it to the hilt. Your PC can never be subservient unless you let them be, that’s a player fail. Your PC isn’t weaker than someone else’s because they have a starting score of 18 in their main while you have a 15 or 16.

The roll for stats people are mostly like me, old players with years of experience that argue

1. Rolling is they way we have done it for years
2. It’s increases variety and depth.
3. It’s never destroyed or damaged any game we have ever seen or heard of.
4. We don’t play with players that we think would cheat on the PC creation rolls.

Of course all of these are subjective arguments, although I could argue mathematically that if you start out at +1 for your ability modifier compares to other players it’s not breaking the game in any way, you get that extra hit or save or ability check success once in every 20 rolls on the average. Tony Vargas has been around for as long as I have (37 years at the tables) ask him or any other long time player.

The only time I have seen a player get totally screwed by random numbers in PC generation was in the Traveler game where you could literally get a result that your PC aged out and died before the game even started. Otherwise it’s a wash.

Everyone can choose anyway they want to generate their stats, the are all basically the same. However the arguments I see and hear against rolling are just not true or way off base, and the proponents of those arguments just twist themselves into knots trying to “prove” them. I think that most of these arguments are based in the fear that some other player will get over on them, have a “better” PC due to RNG.

If you roll in front of everyone then it becomes a group building thing that is enjoyable. Try it once.

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[Caliban]

So you still didn’t post the PC you created and said I was wrong on, instead you posted 5 more? You never put your money up at all.

You get the point, I stuck it right in the middle of your forehead.

bye!

You really didn't, you know. You ignore anything that doesn't line up with your preconceptions - or conveniently decide they are lying. You have failed.

 

[Caliban]

The defenders of arrays and point buy basically claim the following is true

1. Rolling breaks the game
2. Rolling create overwhelming PC
3. Rolling destroys play balance
4. Rolling creates too much variety
5. You can’t trust other players, they always cheat if you let them roll
6. Rolling is inherently random you could get a weak PC.
7. Rolling could make your PC worse then someone else’s which
8. Would force your PC into a subservient role.


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Once again, ignoring everything that doesn't match your preconceptions. You are making straw man arguments and attributing them to everyone who disagrees with you.

1-5 are all false statements on your part (i.e. no one is claiming these things. Not to the degree you are saying they are). 6-8 are all basically the same thing, and are technically true but stated in a very biased fashion. Some people really don't enjoy playing PC's that are weaker than everyone else. You act like this is somehow a bad thing, but it's just a preference - neither good nor bad.

You simply come off as a very dishonest person.

Rolling is fun for some people. It is not fun for other people. Point buy is fun for some people. It is not fun for other people. That's basically it.

 

[smbakeresq]

You really didn't, you know. You ignore anything that doesn't line up with your preconceptions - or conveniently decide they are lying. You have failed.

I never said he was lying, it was another who claimed he built a javelin thrower. I guess you never read whole sentences do you?

And the build never as posted was it? His claim was I got the main stat right but everything else was wrong, but he never posted the build. If he had one he would have just cut and pasted it right away, that didn’t happen.


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[Caliban]

I never said he was lying, it was another who claimed he built a javelin thrower. I guess you never read whole sentences do you?

And the build never as posted was it? His claim was I got the main stat right but everything else was wrong, but he never posted the build. If he had one he would have just cut and pasted it right away, that didn’t happen.

Sorry, I really can't trust anything you say. You've just been too dishonest so far. I'm sure you understand.

 

[smbakeresq]

Once again, ignoring everything that doesn't match your preconceptions. You are making straw man arguments and attributing them to everyone who disagrees with you.

1-5 are all false statements on your part (i.e. no one is claiming these things. Not to the degree you are saying they are). 6-8 are all basically the same thing, and are technically true but stated in a very biased fashion. Some people really don't enjoy playing PC's that are weaker than everyone else. You act like this is somehow a bad thing, but it's just a preference - neither good nor bad.

You simply come off as a very dishonest person.

Rolling is fun for some people. It is not fun for other people. Point buy is fun for some people. It is not fun for other people. That's basically it.

And you have your ways and anyone who disagrees with you claim as dishonest and disrespectful. I have seen this from you al over the forums, you post nothing constructive and are always argumentative. You do this all over the forums in many threads.

In addition you claimed I said he was a liar about a javelin build, I didn’t, so I just proved you are a liar. I have done this before also.


And go through my arguments, I never claimed it wasn’t fun for some people, those are the arguments you see against rolling. You claimed I did, that’s wrong.

But what is the reason rolling isn’t fun for you, the actually physical motion of tossing the dice? Or is it when you read the dice, which could lead to one of the reasons above?

People can play however they want. The roller proponents make the positive arguments, that it’s variety and randomness is good for the game. The point buy and stat array people are mostly make negative arguments, that without set it stone limitations of an array and to a lesser extent point the game is somehow damaged. If you let players choose stats the apocalypse is upon us.

Try a PC building session with your group before your next game. Actually sit down and try it and roll up some PCs. Nothing bad will happen. The game will continue, your not in a competition with other PCs or the DM. It’s a group mentality.


BYE.


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