Advanced Chain Golem - CR9??

[Steel_Wind]

I was playing with e-tools and came up with this critter. I was considering on having a pair of them as the servants of a BBEG spellcaster.

I advanced the Chain Golem from MMII to 11 HD (Large)

The possibilities of a pair of these creature when used to aid the Spellcasters AC or to use its disarm, snatch, trip and chain barrier special attacks appear to me to be wholly frightening in their implications.

Is this really a CR9??

Chain Golem (Advanced)
Large Construct
Hit Dice: 11d10 (88 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
AC: +13 (-1 Size, +2 Dex, +2 Natural), touch 11, flatfooted 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+20
Attack: 2 Chain Rake +15 melee (2d6+8)
Full Attack: 2 Chain Rake +15 melee
Space/Reach: 5ft. / 10ft.
Special Attacks: Wounding (Ex), Chain Barrier (Ex)
Special Qualities: Resistance: Ranged Attacks (Su), Immunity: Magic (Ex), Low-light Vision (Ex), Immunity: Critical hits (Ex), Cannot be Raised or Resurrected, Immunity: Necromancy (Ex), Immunity: Paralysis (Ex), Immunity: Ability Drain (Ex), Immunity: Stun (Ex), Immunity: Exhaustion (Ex), Immunity: Death Effects (Ex), No Natural Healing (Ex), Immunity: Fatigue (Ex), Darkvision (Ex): 60 ft., Immunity: Ability Damage (Ex), Immunity: Fortitude Save-Based Attacks (Ex), Immunity: Nonlethal Damage (Ex), Immunity: Poison (Ex), Immunity: Mind-Affecting Attacks (Ex), Immunity: Disease (Ex), Immunity: Death from Massive Damage (Ex), Immunity: Energy Drain (Ex), Immunity: Sleep Effects (Ex)
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +3
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 15, Con --, Int --, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: Control Shape +5, Hide +0, Move Silently +4, Spellcraft +2, Spot +3
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Deft Opportunist, Dodge, Final Strike, Improved Aid, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip,
Languages:

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Climate/Terrain: Any Land, Any Underground
Challenge Rating: 9??
Treasure: Coins: None , Goods: None , Items: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 8-10 HD (Medium); 11-21 HD (Large)

 

[Prism]

If you follow the advancement rules in MM I place these at CR7 not CR9. +1 CR for the 4HD being a construct and +1 CR for becoming large

You also seem to be missing some natural armour

 

[Infiniti2000]

Are you using 3.5? If so, you need to include the 3.5 update:

Chain Golem: Construct; 5 ft./10 ft.; LA —; Gains 20 bonus hit points (change to Construct type); HD become 7d10+20 (58 hp). Chain barrier ability works exactly like the blade barrier spell. Magic Immunity (Ex): A chain golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted in its entry.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Remember, it's a golem. It has very little recourse when confronted with mobile things - and at APL9, the party's going to be pretty mobile.

It'll be a nightmare in an area where the PCs can't run away or maneuver, but in a more open surrounding it'll be a [relative] cakewalk.

 

[Grazzt]

Abilities: Str 26, Dex 15, Con --, Int --, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: Control Shape +5, Hide +0, Move Silently +4, Spellcraft +2, Spot +3
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Deft Opportunist, Dodge, Final Strike, Improved Aid, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip,

Unless it gains racial bonuses to skills, without an Intelligence score, it doesnt get any skills at all. Same with feats. Unless they are all bonus feats, it has none....because it has no Int score.

 

[Steel_Wind]

OK. It seems there are a lot of errors in my e-tools advanced chain golem.

For one - it starts as Large now in 3.5, so the advancement and stat increases I have listed here are just way off. I suppose that it's a HUGE chain golem now if advanced a size class upwards. I'd rather not have to make it that large...

And yes - the natural armor of 8 got changed to 2 by e-tools. That would move its AC to 19 (or 23 with a Chain Barrier up). It should come down again for another deduction in size to Huge - if I was going that route.

The skill points / feats disallowance for no INT was a good catch. See what errors you make when playing with e-tools?

*sighs*

So... adjust AC, remove the combat reflexes, improved aid, final strike and deft opportunist and this is a CR 6 or 7? This is so because arrow fire will bring this creature down?

Alternatively, keep those feat enhancements and call them "abilities that significantly improve the combat effectiveness of the creature" and it's a CR 8 or 9?

I guess that depends wholly on its relative vulnerability to missile fire whem matched with a low maneuverability.

But even one of these when paired with a creature like a Wizard with significant ranged spell power...

TPK struck me as a significant possibility for my APL 8.5 party of 8 in a dungeon setting.

 

[azhrei_fje]

TPK struck me as a significant possibility for my APL 8.5 party of 8 in a dungeon setting.

Well, your APL of 8.5 could be 4 PCs at 16th level and 4 PCs at 1st level. I don't think that'd be a TPK.

(I don't use APL for this reason; I calculate the party level the same way I would calculate the EL of an encounter, then subtract 4.)

With 8 PCs and an APL of 8.5, you could (realistically) have 4 at 10th level and 7th level. Still sounds like it wouldn't be a TPK...

 

[Krelios]

In a party of 8 I would worry about the golem lasting more than a round, maybe two at most. That thing has chain barrier as its only really unique ability and there are plenty of spells that don't allow spell resistance. If you have someone with an adamantine weapon, this will drop in a hurry.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Well I ran the above monster - probably not as effectively as I could have - and only one of them in very confined quarters (a library with confined corridors and large book shelves inhibiting movment) scared the poop out of the party.

No one died and they managed to bring it down without anyone in the party dying. This was more by good luck than good management as the way the creature entered and where the Knights in the party were in the library room at the time allowed them to advance on it in five foot steps, not provoking the multiple attacks of opportunity at a further +4.

Even still - the Chain golem contemptuously disarmed one of the main fighters and the other managed to hang on to his two handed weapon long enough to hit it twice without getting hammered too badly. The arrows from the rest of the party brought it down.

I still believe that CR9 is a little too low. A pair of these things run a little more intelligently by me would have been devastating I think.