D&D 5E Blade Pact Warlocks and Conventional Wisdom

[MechaTarrasque]

Where does this story come from? It seems like something you're just making up right now. No offense, I just don't see it.

Anyway, the Blade Pact is just as much a magical swashbuckler, or shadowdancer type, as a magical assassin.

A shadow dancer isn't a magical assassin? Don't tell the 4e assassins, the existential crisis that they aren't really assassins might be too much for them.

As for the rest of your comments, the story I mentioned is the villain's plan. In most books, it doesn't work. The patsy escapes, proves the prince was evil, either discovers he was the long lost heir or marries a princess, etc. If that doesn't sound familiar, I can't help you.

I know when the warlock comes up, people on this forum like to pretend "connotation" isn't a real word, but they are wrong. The connotations of the warlock are one of the big drivers of WotC's design of the warlock. WotC isn't hiding this (see http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?539947-Insights-into-Warlock-Invocation-Design for more details), so if you are looking for what the warlock is designed to do, sneaky bad guy stuff is it. A warlock might be a good guy using bad guy toys, but they are bad guy toys. And as far as the bladelock goes, it is a pretty poor sneaky bad guy that hangs around in front of the angry mob with a sword. Of course, some people still expect the rogue to do that too, so there is no helping that.

 

[Caliban]

A shadow dancer isn't a magical assassin? Don't tell the 4e assassins, the existential crisis that they aren't really assassins might be too much for them.

As for the rest of your comments, the story I mentioned is the villain's plan. In most books, it doesn't work. The patsy escapes, proves the prince was evil, either discovers he was the long lost heir or marries a princess, etc. If that doesn't sound familiar, I can't help you.

I know when the warlock comes up, people on this forum like to pretend "connotation" isn't a real word, but they are wrong. The connotations of the warlock are one of the big drivers of WotC's design of the warlock. WotC isn't hiding this (see http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?539947-Insights-into-Warlock-Invocation-Design for more details), so if you are looking for what the warlock is designed to do, sneaky bad guy stuff is it. A warlock might be a good guy using bad guy toys, but they are bad guy toys. And as far as the bladelock goes, it is a pretty poor sneaky bad guy that hangs around in front of the angry mob with a sword. Of course, some people still expect the rogue to do that too, so there is no helping that.

My preferred bladelock story is more of the "Black Knight" type, rather than the sneaky bastard type. A soldier or other fighting man who was offered a bit more power and in a moment of weakness or anger accepted. First level as fighter (possibly 2 levels for action surge) and the rest as fiend patron warlock. I call the build the "Tanklock" as they have phenomenal damage mitigation capabilities if played intelligently. But that's only one variant.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

A shadow dancer isn't a magical assassin? Don't tell the 4e assassins, the existential crisis that they aren't really assassins might be too much for them.

As for the rest of your comments, the story I mentioned is the villain's plan. In most books, it doesn't work. The patsy escapes, proves the prince was evil, either discovers he was the long lost heir or marries a princess, etc. If that doesn't sound familiar, I can't help you.

I know when the warlock comes up, people on this forum like to pretend "connotation" isn't a real word, but they are wrong. The connotations of the warlock are one of the big drivers of WotC's design of the warlock. WotC isn't hiding this (see http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?539947-Insights-into-Warlock-Invocation-Design for more details), so if you are looking for what the warlock is designed to do, sneaky bad guy stuff is it. A warlock might be a good guy using bad guy toys, but they are bad guy toys. And as far as the bladelock goes, it is a pretty poor sneaky bad guy that hangs around in front of the angry mob with a sword. Of course, some people still expect the rogue to do that too, so there is no helping that.

You...know there are lots of bad guy toys other than assassination, right?

No one is doubting that warlocks have forbidden magics and all that. But what on earth has that got to do with your very strange claim that the intended "story" of the blade Pact is specifically assassination? That story you made up is...literally just a story you made up. It has no bearing on what the option is meant to represent, outside of your own personal characters.

And no, shadow dancers are not *necessarily* assassins, nor is the 4e style Shadow Assassin *simply* a shadow dancer.

Lastly, you didn't address magic swashbucklers, or any other character concept that combines armed combat with fell, Eldritch, and/or Fey magic. They are certainly part of the intended "story" of the blade Pact Boon.
But ultimately, the blade Pact Boon "story" is simply that of a warlock whose Pact came with a magical weapon, rather than a grimoire or a familiar.

 

[Lanliss]

My preferred bladelock story is more of the "Black Knight" type, rather than the sneaky bastard type. A soldier or other fighting man who was offered a bit more power and in a moment of weakness or anger accepted. First level as fighter (possibly 2 levels for action surge) and the rest as fiend patron warlock. I call the build the "Tanklock" as they have phenomenal damage mitigation capabilities if played intelligently. But that's only one variant.

I have a "Magic Swashbuckler" character I like, and wouldn't mind playing with a different story. Currently a Swashbuckler 3/Bladelock 3, but I could see replacing Swashbuckler with EK, for more variety.

I have another concept I have been throwing around as a kind of "Lord of the Hunt patron" Fey Bladelock/Arcane Archer, or Fey Bladelock/Ranger. The Fey is important because of the UA invocation for a Moonbow, but the other class can be anything that makes a decent Archer, and depends entirely on your preference. Makes for a nice Monster hunter type character, and also acts as a good example of a Good Warlock with a Good Patron, which some people cannot believe is possible.

Lastly, I have fleshed out my Arthur Warlock I mentioned earlier in the thread, another good example of a Good character with a Good Patron. Lady of the Lake sees a destined hero, and offers him a Sword to cleanse the country of Evil. I might level him into fighter after a little bit, since Arthur is a Squire, but I could stick with just Bladelock for him.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I will say that this thread has encouraged me to try to build a good Blade-lock without multiclassing, and I do think I succeeded, although you need Feats, and you have to be a Variant Human or Mountain Dwarf to get Heavy Armor by 4th level.

This guy's real thing is "moar Hit Points". He get temporary HP from multiple sources and also can resort to Vampiric Touch to get even more Hit Points. Combined with Armor of Agathys he'll probably do nearly as much damage from being hit as from hitting people with his Pact weapon.

I didn't even bother picking Cantrips for the build yet. I don't think it matters much. Anyway, here he is:

RATHOR THE ACCURSED
CN Human (Var) Warlock (Blade/Fiend) 5

STR 16 (+3)
DEX 10 (+0)
CON 14 (+2)
INT 8 (-1)
WIS 12 (+1/4)
CHR 16 (+3/6)

HD 5d8+10
HP ~33 [+8 False Life (41); +15 AoA (56); +8-16 Blessing (64-72)]
AC 19 (Splint Armor, Shield)

SPECIAL ACTIONS
Extra Attack (2 weapon attacks)

WEAPONS
Longsword +6 1d8+3
Sword-Hex +6 1d8+1d6+3

ATTACK SPELLS
Vmp Touch +6 3d6

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: All armor, Shields
Weapons: Simple, Pact Weapons
Tools: None
Saves: Wis, Chr

SKILLS
2 Background, 1 Human, 2 Class

FEATS
Human-V: Moderately Armored (+1 Str)
Warlock-4: Heavily Armored (+1 Str)

SPECIAL
Patron: The Fiend
-Blessing: Kill enemy, get 8 temp HP
Pact: Blade
Pact Magic
-Cantrips (3): Whatever
-Invocations (3): See below
-Spells Known: 6
--Hex (+1d6 damage)
--Armor of Agathys (+15 HP, 15 cold damage)
--Protection from Evil/Good
--Darkness (+Devil's Sight, aww yeah baby)
--Misty Step
--Vampiric Touch (3d6 dmg, 1/2 heal)
-Spell Slots: 2
-Slot Level: 3
-Spell Attack: +6
-Spell DC: 14
-Spell Focus: Arcane

INVOCATIONS (3)
Thirsty Blade (Extra Attack)
Fiendish Vigor (Cast False Life at will; +8 HP)
Devil's Sight (120')

 

[Irda Ranger]

Lastly, I have fleshed out my Arthur Warlock I mentioned earlier in the thread, another good example of a Good character with a Good Patron. Lady of the Lake sees a destined hero, and offers him a Sword to cleanse the country of Evil.

I would like to know more...

 

[Lanliss]

I will say that this thread has encouraged me to try to build a good Blade-lock without multiclassing, and I do think I succeeded, although you need Feats, and you have to be a Variant Human or Mountain Dwarf to get Heavy Armor by 4th level.

This guy's real thing is "moar Hit Points". He get temporary HP from multiple sources and also can resort to Vampiric Touch to get even more Hit Points. Combined with Armor of Agathys he'll probably do nearly as much damage from being hit as from hitting people with his Pact weapon.

I didn't even bother picking Cantrips for the build yet. I don't think it matters much. Anyway, here he is:

RATHOR THE ACCURSED
CN Human (Var) Warlock (Blade/Fiend) 5

STR 16 (+3)
DEX 10 (+0)
CON 14 (+2)
INT 8 (-1)
WIS 12 (+1/4)
CHR 16 (+3/6)

HD 5d8+10
HP ~33 [+8 False Life (41); +15 AoA (56); +8-16 Blessing (64-72)]
AC 19 (Splint Armor, Shield)

SPECIAL ACTIONS
Extra Attack (2 weapon attacks)

WEAPONS
Longsword +6 1d8+3
Sword-Hex +6 1d8+1d6+3

ATTACK SPELLS
Vmp Touch +6 3d6

PROFICIENCIES
Armor: All armor, Shields
Weapons: Simple, Pact Weapons
Tools: None
Saves: Wis, Chr

SKILLS
2 Background, 1 Human, 2 Class

FEATS
Human-V: Moderately Armored (+1 Str)
Warlock-4: Heavily Armored (+1 Str)

SPECIAL
Patron: The Fiend
-Blessing: Kill enemy, get 8 temp HP
Pact: Blade
Pact Magic
-Cantrips (3): Whatever
-Invocations (3): See below
-Spells Known: 6
--Hex (+1d6 damage)
--Armor of Agathys (+15 HP, 15 cold damage)
--Protection from Evil/Good
--Darkness (+Devil's Sight, aww yeah baby)
--Misty Step
--Vampiric Touch (3d6 dmg, 1/2 heal)
-Spell Slots: 2
-Slot Level: 3
-Spell Attack: +6
-Spell DC: 14
-Spell Focus: Arcane

INVOCATIONS (3)
Thirsty Blade (Extra Attack)
Fiendish Vigor (Cast False Life at will; +8 HP)
Devil's Sight (120')

Looks like a great build. If you want Moar Damage, one of your cantrips can be from SCAG.

 

[Lanliss]

I would like to know more...

Not a lot to know, it is basically the Arthurian legend. A squire wants to get stronger, probably after getting mugged, or seeing a mugging he couldn't stop. He goes to his favorite spot by the lake to get all weepy about how broken the world is and, as his tears hit the water, a woman rises out. She offers him her help, as she is also sick of the dark turn her country* has taken. She knows of the legends of a great king, rising from nothing to push back the darkness, and offers the young squire her Blade, that he may be the Legendary King.

In mechanical terms, he starts at level three, probably never uses actual Warlock spells. As a squire, he will have decent strength and Con, and he always summons his Pact weapon as a Longsword. Later on he can take some of the UA invocations, making it a +1/+2/+3 longsword to reflect him gaining more Power as the King. Have not done any actual math yet, but he feels like a decent enough build to survive, especially in a low-magic sort of campaign where most of the enemies will only be slightly above commoner. Most importantly, he will have a code, and probably be the Birth of an order of Devotion Paladins.

*Lady in the Lake can be considered as a kind of embodiment of the Spirit of the Land in this story.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I will say that this thread has encouraged me to try to build a good Blade-lock without multiclassing(...)

The problem with this build is that your enemies have no real incentive to attack you instead of squishier targets. You're neither a tank with tanking abilities (like the protection fighting style or battlemaster maneuvers) nor a powerful damage dealer. Being able to sustain a lot of punishment when there are better targets around is not a big advantage. Besides, any non-optimized warlock could be attacking twice for 1d10+4 force damage at level 5 and still get the benefits of another boon. It's a really cool concept, I feel bad for the fact that they managed to make it worse than ranger beastmaster... :/

 

[Lanliss]

The problem with this build is that your enemies have no real incentive to attack you instead of squishier targets. You're neither a tank with tanking abilities (like the protection fighting style or battlemaster maneuvers) nor a powerful damage dealer. Being able to sustain a lot of punishment when there are better targets around is not a big advantage. Besides, any non-optimized warlock could be attacking twice for 1d10+4 force damage at level 5 and still get the benefits of another boon. It's a really cool concept, I feel bad for the fact that they managed to make it worse than ranger beastmaster... :/

Booming Blade will fix that, since your enemy won't be able to walk away from you without getting punished.