Custom Spells (Revised 7-18-2006)

[Ferrix]

If you remove the focus and the (as currently written) -4 undead save, it is little different than Control Body as mentioned. Though, but a strick reading of the undead type, it should automake the save anyway (it doesn't affect objects and is harmless). But of confusion either way.

Undead are not objects, they are creatures. No reading of the undead type ever says otherwise.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oh well, it just happens to be effective against them. However, they get a save every round, and you can't coup-de-grace undead so no real instakill there.

A level 20 lich would probably make the save the first time around anyways against a 7th level caster and then crush the life out of the poor 7th level caster with a single word or gesture.

20th level Lich has +6 to Fort saves, possibly more if he specifically has a Cloak of Resistance. The DC on this spell from a level 7 character will almost certainly be somewhere between 17 and 20. So the level 7 character has a very good chance of having it work against a level 20 Lich.

 

[Ferrix]

20th level Lich has +6 to Fort saves, possibly more if he specifically has a Cloak of Resistance. The DC on this spell from a level 7 character will almost certainly be somewhere between 17 and 20. So the level 7 character has a very good chance of having it work against a level 20 Lich.

A 20th level Lich with a total +6 to Fort saves and no other bonuses is a sore excuse for a Lich.

 

[Rystil Arden]

A 20th level Lich with a total +6 to Fort saves and no other bonuses is a sore excuse for a Lich.

There's not much to be done to up it. She can't exactly get herself a Con score, you know? Frankly, it's why I created a template for undead that lets them add Charisma bonus to Fort saves.

 

[Ferrix]

There's not much to be done to up it. She can't exactly get herself a Con score, you know? Frankly, it's why I created a template for undead that lets them add Charisma bonus to Fort saves.

The Resistance line of spells (from SC if we approve them can give up to a +6 bonus), protection from spells (+8 resistance bonus to saves vs. spells), a +5 cloak or vest (if approved from CA or just made by an artificer), a couple levels of higher fort save classes, a couple levels of blackguard (Cha to AC), and so on.

Not to mention all the spells (spell turning, antimagic field, globe of invulnerability, spell resistance, spell immunity) such a lich could have at its defense or the minions it would have who would beat the 7th level spellcaster senseless.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The Resistance line of spells (from SC if we approve them can give up to a +6 bonus), protection from spells (+8 resistance bonus to saves vs. spells), a +5 cloak or vest (if approved from CA or just made by an artificer), a couple levels of higher fort save classes, a couple levels of blackguard (Cha to AC), and so on.

Not to mention all the spells (spell turning, antimagic field, globe of invulnerability, spell resistance, spell immunity) such a lich could have at its defense or the minions it would have who would beat the 7th level spellcaster senseless.

Those first three are all resistance and thus don't stack. The others don't really bolster the saves. Also, things with undead hit dice and good attacks to use against their allies (if any allies) are more screwed--Nightcrawler, the 25 HD CR 18 undead, has +12 Fort save, for instance.

 

[stonegod]

Undead are not objects, they are creatures. No reading of the undead type ever says otherwise.

Via the SRD:

Undead Type: ...Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

This is why Disintegrate works on Liches, but things like Deceberate do not.

 

[Ferrix]

Those first three are all resistance and thus don't stack. The others don't really bolster the saves. Also, things with undead hit dice and good attacks to use against their allies (if any allies) are more screwed--Nightcrawler, the 25 HD CR 18 undead, has +12 Fort save, for instance.

I'm not saying that Undead aren't vulnerable to such a spell, but it's not like wizards in general aren't vulnerable to Fortitude saves even at high level. Just because its their weakness doesn't mean there shouldn't be things that target that weakness, particularly when it can be overcome in other ways.

 

[Ferrix]

Via the SRD:This is why Disintegrate works on Liches, but things like Deceberate do not.

Oops... even went to the SRD and read over the Undead type and missed that for once.

Although I think Control Body takes precidence as it specifically calls out undead as being able to be affected by it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oops... even went to the SRD and read over the Undead type and missed that for once.

Although I think Control Body takes precidence as it specifically calls out undead as being able to be affected by it.

I agree that it does, unfortunately.